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Anybody Use a Shimano Indexed Shifter w/ a Suntour Cyclone Rear Derailleur?

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Anybody Use a Shimano Indexed Shifter w/ a Suntour Cyclone Rear Derailleur?

Old 08-12-12, 08:46 PM
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fender1
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Anybody Use a Shimano Indexed Shifter w/ a Suntour Cyclone Rear Derailleur?

If so, how did it work and how did you set it up?
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Old 08-12-12, 08:58 PM
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Now, why would you go and do a thing like that?
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Old 08-12-12, 09:20 PM
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I am just that kind of guy...
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Old 08-12-12, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
If so, how did it work and how did you set it up?
That way lies madness!!!!

They have different indexing philosophies, different derailleur geometries, different cable pull requirements and different cog spacing, so mixing levers/ders isn't supposed to work, and usually doesn't. I'm sure someone will chime in with a workaround that shifted OK for them, this ground has been covered before. Shimano's system is fairly tolerant, so putting a Cyclone rder into an all-Shimano system might give you a better chance of success than putting Shimano shifters into an all-Suntour system.

I spent a lot of hours trying to help mfrs and dealers get all-Suntour systems to shift reliably, with only moderate success, so I don't even want to think about trying to mix systems. But my nightmares aren't yours, so if sounds like fun to you, give 'er a whirl!
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Old 08-12-12, 10:46 PM
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What generation of Cyclone are you talking about? How many cogs?
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Old 08-12-12, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
If so,
Nooo!! You're mad, mad I tell you...
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Old 08-12-12, 11:07 PM
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Not exactly to the point but as a matter of interest....

I just recently bought a mid-ninties Specialized Allez Pro set up with Sram index (bar-ends) shifting a Suntour Superbe Pro RD w/Campy 8 speed cassette. Sram/Shimano is same/same, isn't it? Son of a gun worked fine when I test rode it. It's torn down now.

J
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Old 08-12-12, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by afilado View Post
I just recently bought a mid-ninties Specialized Allez Pro set up with Sram index (bar-ends) shifting a Suntour Superbe Pro RD w/Campy 8 speed cassette. Sram/Shimano is same/same, isn't it? Son of a gun worked fine when I test rode it. J
Hokey Smokes! That's mixing three different brands/specs maybe!!! And it worked? Do you know any exorcists? Something unholy happening there...

Back in the day, when all they made was shifters, SRAM built both Suntour- and Shimano-compatible shifters. Shimano tried to "convince" customers to not buy SRAM by pricing components higher if bought without shifters, or not promising timely shipping. SRAM sued Shimano in the US and won, so when SRAM asked Suntour for samples to design Suntour-compatible levers, Suntour said sure-howdy. That may have been when SRAM's only product was the Grip-Shift, don't remember them having barcons at the time. Not sure whether they were making Campy-compatible in those days as well. I'd guess that once everybody stopped specing Suntour, SRAM cut way back on Suntour-compatible production.

So I don't know if SRAM ever offered Campy-compatible barcons, but either way, very cool/lucky for you that the mixture works on your Allez Pro.
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Old 08-12-12, 11:45 PM
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If the indexing is 7 speed and the rd is for 7 speed i could work. But who knows because I really cant remember if the cyclone pulled the same cable than shimano. Actually I remember seen a cyclone that was produced before indexing (friction), thats why somebody was asking what version of cyclone was.

If you have the parts to test that is pretty easy and fast. If you are looking to buy a cyclone RD is a risk because suntour had cyclone before introducing indexing and who knows, no idea if the suntour 7 speed freewheels had the same spacing than the shimano ones. I always used friction back in the day so i was able to put any of the wheels i had moving around. If you go friction mode the answer is a big YES, if you go index the answer is who knows.
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Old 08-13-12, 06:11 AM
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I can't answer for the Cyclone, but I've had very good luck using Shimano indexed shifters with V-Luxe RDs, both short and long cage versions.

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Old 08-13-12, 09:08 AM
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Was looking to use a first Gen. Cyclone w/ 7 speed sti bar end and a 7 seven speed IRD (modern ramped and Shimano spaced) freewheel
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Old 08-13-12, 10:21 AM
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I don't think it matters. Isn't the spacing and cable pull determined by the freewheel and shifters? The cyclone is friction and it should move as much as the shifter needs it to.
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Old 08-13-12, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nikkorod View Post
I don't think it matters. Isn't the spacing and cable pull determined by the freewheel and shifters? The cyclone is friction and it should move as much as the shifter needs it to.
I thought that as well.
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Old 08-13-12, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by nikkorod View Post
I don't think it matters. Isn't the spacing and cable pull determined by the freewheel and shifters? The cyclone is friction and it should move as much as the shifter needs it to.
Not all derailleurs move the same amount for the same amount of cable pulled. Any derailleur will move as much as the shifter tells it to (cable pull), but that doesn't mean it's moving the right distance (to line up over the next cog).
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Old 08-13-12, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Not all derailleurs move the same amount for the same amount of cable pulled. Any derailleur will move as much as the shifter tells it to (cable pull), but that doesn't mean it's moving the right distance (to line up over the next cog).
Bingo

Now I want more details on that SRAM/suntour/Campagnolo abomination on the allez. That sounds fun. By ar ends to you mean bar end mounted grip shifters?
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Old 08-13-12, 12:20 PM
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Then there is the Suntour issue of unevenly spaced cogs on their "Micro-Drive" 7 and 8 speed systems, with the lower gears spaced closer together than the higher. I had assumed that the shifters would control the different spacing with different index indents, but it could be that the RD's had uneven (non-linear) responses to evenly spaced indexes. Anyone have a clue how that worked?

If the RD responds linearly, then you might be able to mix and match, using Hubbub cable clamping, Shift-mate adapters, or just plum luck.
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Old 08-13-12, 12:23 PM
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I've used a cyclone RD with up to 7 speed indexed shimano freewheel/shifter setup without issue, standard install and all, the only trick was setting the limit at the beginning but even that was just basic usual drivetrain setup. Are you looking for some sorta specifics here?
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Old 08-13-12, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
I've used a cyclone RD with up to 7 speed indexed shimano freewheel/shifter setup without issue, standard install and all, the only trick was setting the limit at the beginning but even that was just basic usual drivetrain setup. Are you looking for some sorta specifics here?
No and thanks for letting me know it worked. Not tough to figure out, just did not want to waste a whole lot of time on something with no chance of working.
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Old 08-13-12, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
No and thanks for letting me know it worked. Not tough to figure out, just did not want to waste a whole lot of time on something with no chance of working.
FWIW I don't think it matters if it works for someone else or not, when I originally researched to do what your doing I found a lot of horror stories as well as success stories, so results will vary.
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Old 08-13-12, 01:21 PM
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I'm gonna pray really hard for it to work for you, fender1.
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Old 08-13-12, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
I'm gonna pray really hard for it to work for you, fender1.
Jebus will fix your bike.
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Old 08-13-12, 01:39 PM
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Oh sure, pray for my bike but what about me**********?
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Old 08-13-12, 02:22 PM
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I have set up Cyclone M2 (can't remember if it was my short or long cage model) to index with Shimano 8 speed. But it was just set up on the stand last winter when I was bored. I never actually rode it.
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Old 08-13-12, 02:51 PM
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Hope we're not hijacking the thread with this side issue. Anyhoo......

To add another bit of info to the mystery, the bike's longtime owner was an employee of Litespeed. And it was a serious daily rider, maybe his commuter. Very nice bike, well-maintained, etc.

The set-up: Sram manufactured bar-end stubby (2" in length, 2" in diameter) grip shifters > Suntour Superbe Pro (third generation) > Campagnolo Record 8 speed cassette.

J


Originally Posted by thirdgenbird View Post
Bingo

Now I want more details on that SRAM/suntour/Campagnolo abomination on the allez. That sounds fun. By ar ends to you mean bar end mounted grip shifters?
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Old 08-13-12, 02:56 PM
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This is interesting as I will be trying a similar thing over the winter. I think if the Cyclone is designed for indexing it might work but the 1st gen (non index) may not.

I am going to try and use 600DT shifters and Sprint RD but transplane shimano pulleys and a 7spd cassette. I did have a 600 I8 RD running on Suntour index barcons for a few years and it worked OK so who knows.
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