Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Any Ciöcc info appreciated! - pix heavy

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Any Ciöcc info appreciated! - pix heavy

Old 08-21-12, 12:01 PM
  #1  
peugeot mongrel
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
peugeot mongrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 473

Bikes: 84 Coppi - 94 Hujsak - 82 Colnago Superissimo - 78 Ciöcc - 70's Galmozzi - 73 Lambert - 78 Motobecane Grand Record - 87 Peugeot Triathlon - 66 Peugeot H-40 - 78 Peugeot U08 - 85 Raleigh C-40 - 82 miyata 310 - 82 Univega - 85 Sterling SIS Mixte

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 12 Posts
Any Ciöcc info appreciated! - pix heavy

I just received this challenged beauty and I am trying to figure out as much as I can about it and Giovanni Pelizzoli. I've been all over Polizzoli World and found quite a few images searching. Who built them when Pelizzoli sold the brand (1980 by his site)?

The seat stays and fork crown are what I am trying to figure out. This one has elongated Cs but no "flying C" (little tab in the front of the C) like most I have seen in pix. The early ones I found in pix don't have that tab but the Cs on them don't seem elongated like these. Its seems like an early 80s frame.

what I know
its 55 x 55 c-c
26.8 seatpost - 2,040g frame & 703g fork
no cutouts in the lugs
Campagnolo dropouts
2 bottle cages
derailleur is clamp on
128mm rear spacing so it has probably been built up 130mm before
decals are repos
the paint is distressed but was professionally done last time pearl white

I'm pretty sure I'm going to like it ...













peugeot mongrel is offline  
Old 08-21-12, 12:08 PM
  #2  
Chombi
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,138

Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 28 Times in 23 Posts
Looks to me to be all genuine Ciocc there with all those Ciocc pantographs......Could be early to mid 80's with SL tubing. check the bb shell area to see if you can spot any rifling in the frame tubes in case it's SLX which will significantly raise the value of that frame compared to an SL tubed frameset. IIRC, Mid 80's and up models usually came with the FD tab on the seat tube.

Chombi
Chombi is offline  
Old 08-21-12, 01:32 PM
  #3  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,738

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3757 Post(s)
Liked 2,236 Times in 1,210 Posts
I'm going with early 80's - that bb cutout wasn't on my 1985 and they kind of dropped the "four aces" logo about that time too.
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 08-21-12, 08:54 PM
  #4  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,199
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1104 Post(s)
Liked 654 Times in 512 Posts
it has the ten-speed-drive logo on the brake bridge, so you know who imported this one. Doesn't have the "pin-tail" lugs, but otherwise seems like what TSD called the "Pro" model given the chrome, almost certainly Columbus SL...no, wait...a 26.8 seatpost would be an Aelle frame...check and make sure that's the correct size post.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 08-21-12, 09:14 PM
  #5  
peugeot mongrel
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
peugeot mongrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 473

Bikes: 84 Coppi - 94 Hujsak - 82 Colnago Superissimo - 78 Ciöcc - 70's Galmozzi - 73 Lambert - 78 Motobecane Grand Record - 87 Peugeot Triathlon - 66 Peugeot H-40 - 78 Peugeot U08 - 85 Raleigh C-40 - 82 miyata 310 - 82 Univega - 85 Sterling SIS Mixte

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 12 Posts
I'll check the seatpost again tomorrow but a 27.2 doesn't want to go in it. It is a bit light for Aelle though. It does have short chain stays. thanks mm
peugeot mongrel is offline  
Old 08-22-12, 04:52 AM
  #6  
sloar 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Elwood Indiana
Posts: 7,254

Bikes: they change so much I'm tired of updating this

Mentioned: 161 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1108 Post(s)
Liked 803 Times in 318 Posts
Check your seat post tube, when I got my Ciocc the slit in the top of the tube was crimped to tight and a 27.2 wouldn't fit, I appeased the slit a little and it fit right in.
__________________
Semper fi
sloar is offline  
Old 08-22-12, 11:47 AM
  #7  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,199
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1104 Post(s)
Liked 654 Times in 512 Posts
It's right in that "gray area" of Ciocc production: I only have the Bulgier catalogs to go by, but most of the details are consistent with the earlier (not TSD) Italian model called "World '77", except the catalog says it's Columbus SL:
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/ciocc/04.jpg
note that it has the portacatena dropouts...we know the decals are re-pops but I'd bet that the masking of new paint is exactly what was there before...and the steerer has rifling.
I'm with sloar: make sure there's no pinching or deformation of the seat tube opening cause I really don't think this is an Aelle frame...but who knows what TSD was getting in the very early batches they imported?
Question: is the 2nd set of WB bosses (on ST) exactly like the ones on the DT?

Last edited by unworthy1; 08-22-12 at 11:51 AM.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 08-22-12, 12:36 PM
  #8  
peugeot mongrel
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
peugeot mongrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 473

Bikes: 84 Coppi - 94 Hujsak - 82 Colnago Superissimo - 78 Ciöcc - 70's Galmozzi - 73 Lambert - 78 Motobecane Grand Record - 87 Peugeot Triathlon - 66 Peugeot H-40 - 78 Peugeot U08 - 85 Raleigh C-40 - 82 miyata 310 - 82 Univega - 85 Sterling SIS Mixte

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 12 Posts
Now were getting somewhere. The 2nd set of water bottle holes are not as well done and a little bit different. Helps explain no tail on C. Jury is still out on the ST size. The top of the seat tube has the cut all the way to the hole, but the bottom tab of the binder clamp on the lug is still connected with metal and there seems like a little pucker. 27.2 goes to that point (very tight) then stops. I think tomorrow I'll open that slit. (no hacksaw blade at the office)

It still lacks the pinched lugs with cutouts, but it doesn't have the dimple in the chain stays like the Aelle frames. The pannos on the early bikes look like the c is not as elongated. thanks mm


Last edited by peugeot mongrel; 08-22-12 at 12:54 PM.
peugeot mongrel is offline  
Old 08-22-12, 06:40 PM
  #9  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,199
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1104 Post(s)
Liked 654 Times in 512 Posts
another little trivia detail is the panto on the forkcrown: this is the "early" style where the "club" shape is debossed (recessed) and the "card suits" are embossed (raised). Later versions had everything recessed.
My San Cristobal is very similar except for the lugs which are "pintail" and have a club cutout in the lower headlug, plus the backside of the seatlug comes to a point, where yours is cut square. My SC also has the TSD logo on the brakebridge, and it has "pinned" construction: a pin is easy to see at the inside base of the forkcrown and inside the BB shell...and nearly identical chrome-masking to yours.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 08-22-12, 07:06 PM
  #10  
thinktubes 
weapons-grade bolognium
 
thinktubes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Across the street from Chicago
Posts: 6,066

Bikes: Battaglin Cromor, Ciocc Designer 84, Schwinn Superior 1981

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 890 Post(s)
Liked 1,725 Times in 711 Posts
Yeah, the fork looks different than my Designer 84. Mine has the recessed panto on the fork and also the fork is lugged. I would guess that mine is around 1986 (it has a reg. sticker with that date). Also has a similar BB cutout and TSD stamp.
thinktubes is offline  
Old 08-22-12, 08:00 PM
  #11  
peugeot mongrel
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
peugeot mongrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 473

Bikes: 84 Coppi - 94 Hujsak - 82 Colnago Superissimo - 78 Ciöcc - 70's Galmozzi - 73 Lambert - 78 Motobecane Grand Record - 87 Peugeot Triathlon - 66 Peugeot H-40 - 78 Peugeot U08 - 85 Raleigh C-40 - 82 miyata 310 - 82 Univega - 85 Sterling SIS Mixte

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 12 Posts
This one is pinned construction also. The seat lug as well as being flat across the back the binder is closer to the tube. Not as dramatic. Ive seen that lug on some of the pix with painted rear triangles. If Pelizzoli sold the brand in 1980 as is stated on his history page Pelizzoli World who made the 80s frames?
peugeot mongrel is offline  
Old 08-22-12, 09:21 PM
  #12  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,199
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1104 Post(s)
Liked 654 Times in 512 Posts
Originally Posted by peugeot mongrel View Post
If Pelizzoli sold the brand in 1980 as is stated on his history page Pelizzoli World who made the 80s frames?
Ciocc-cat named three individuals who bought out the name from Giovanni P., but I can't recall them and they meant nothing to me (though maybe were big in the Italian cycling biz).
If you had the fun of seeing that long "industrial film" with the horrendous classical-pop soundtrack you were probably seeing the actual builders who made all the Ciocc, Conti and John frames in the early '80s.

Found the post, maybe the link to the video is still good:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...cal+soundtrack

In the late '80s and beyond production apparently was out-sourced to contract building factories like the Bilotti Brothers, maybe the Ciocc name was still in the hands of the "3 Amigos" who first bought it, maybe not, but around this time the same contractor(s) were building Concordes with many of the same features as Ciocc (and Conti) frames.
Many details remain clouded in secrecy (or just forgotten).

Last edited by unworthy1; 08-22-12 at 09:34 PM.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 08-22-12, 10:02 PM
  #13  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,343 Times in 850 Posts
26.8 is expected if the seat tube was not butted , straight gage ie 0.9mm tube wall
or say 1mm before prep reaming. not the thinner 0.7mm wall on the top..

Last edited by fietsbob; 08-22-12 at 10:06 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 08-22-12, 10:55 PM
  #14  
peugeot mongrel
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
peugeot mongrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 473

Bikes: 84 Coppi - 94 Hujsak - 82 Colnago Superissimo - 78 Ciöcc - 70's Galmozzi - 73 Lambert - 78 Motobecane Grand Record - 87 Peugeot Triathlon - 66 Peugeot H-40 - 78 Peugeot U08 - 85 Raleigh C-40 - 82 miyata 310 - 82 Univega - 85 Sterling SIS Mixte

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 12 Posts
that video is fascinating - thanks
peugeot mongrel is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mgopack42
Classic & Vintage
8
06-19-18 03:04 PM
Chuckk
Classic & Vintage
5
04-02-18 06:42 PM
dirtyphotons
Classic & Vintage
12
12-04-16 06:09 PM
yochris
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
5
04-02-13 11:08 PM
abarth
Classic & Vintage
11
11-07-12 10:42 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.