pargeterw

Hello all,

I'm just about to start restoring a 1973 Gitain Gaves Tandem, and have started a blog do document my progress, but, most importantly, to coalesce my inevitably huge number of questions for the tandeming community into one location.

https://gitaingaves.blogspot.co.uk/

I would be eternally grateful if anybody here had time to read the whole thing (it ended up longer than I meant it to...), and hopefully put in a few useful comments?

Thank you!

Will

Daveyates

Hi Will,

As for braking i think your cantilever brakes should be fine. The problem is steel rims!
When you upgrade to alloy rims you will notice the difference.
As for the rear drum brake maybe it just needs new brake shoes if they are available.

Instead of getting velo orange bottom brackets why not get the bb shell threaded to standard english threading.
Then you have a big choice of which bottom brackets to use.
It should be cheaper than paying the velo orange prices.

Instead of mucking about with the rear derailleur and the spring problem try to get a nice replacement one.

Anyway good luck with your project.

jrecoi

The rear derailer can be changed out for any mountain bike wide capacity derailer available today, it's one of those cases where anything is better than what it has.

As far as handlebars and stems go, I would suggest going with a threadlesss adapter, and perhaps Randonneur handlebars.

As far as rims go, some of Velocity's offerings, their V-section rims are noted for their strength.

I would second Waynesulak's advice in the Tandem Cycling thread.

VeloBrox

I would suggest Mavic A319 or A719 rims with as many spokes as possible.

Velo Orange BBs give great bang for the buck. Rethreading the BB shell sounds like a roundabout hassle.

I got an Arai drum brake on my own tandem. It was never extremely effective, but I got it to work using these steps:

1) Take off the brake "lid" and degrease everything inside. Inspect whether there is any material left on the brake shoes.
2) Cut a 45 degree slice off the ends of the brake shoe material, viewed from the side. This ensures a better contact surface when the shoes expand into the hub.
3) Rough up the brake shoe material and the inside of the brake shell with medium grit sand paper. More friction = better brakes.
4) Put everything back together. Make sure to press the brake arm on the hub while you tighten the locknut, so that the brake shoes stay on center.
6) I would also suggest to move the hub brake cables over to a separate lever, let's say on the stoker bars. Having different brakes on the same lever is IMHO an infantile and idiotic setup. With brakes you need control and modulation, ie. knowing exactly what input you're giving the bike. With two brakes on one lever you don't know which brake is doing what.

pargeterw

Re: Bakes
- I think you're right about this, I certainly won't buy any V brakes without trying this setup first!

Re: BB's
This can't be done, as the standard thread is 1.375" X 24 tpi (34.9mm diameter) and the french thread is 35mm x 1mm. Your idea would work backwards, and indeed damaged ISO BB shells are sometimes tapped out to Italian (36 mm X 24 tpi), but only on heavy mountain bikes which have the metal to spare. I think the shell would be made too thin if I did this, and Italian is only marginally more commonplace than french nowadays.

Re: Derailer
This was my proposed solution to the problem!

Thanks,

Will

pargeterw

RE: Derailer
Yes, this is what I was planning on : )

RE: HB/Stems
What is it about Randonneur that you like?

RE: Rims
Thanks for this, very helpful.


Will

pargeterw

Thanks for the rim recommendations: I have a lot of research and price comparison to do now on all the different ones people are suggesting!

I'm with you on the BB's, Rethreading is more than a hassle, it's impossible! Do you have experience of their longevity/strength?

THANK YOU for your drum brake servicing stuff, it's fantastic. (I just hope my Atom is similar to your Arai!)

The current plan with brake levers is to have separate rim brake levers, and to put the drum brake onto the friction gear shifters that you can see in the photos, which will have been left deserted once I transfer the gear shifting to bar ends. Sounds good?

Thanks again,

Will

VeloBrox

Sorry, meant to say Atom - my hub is Atom as well. All drum brake hubs need more or less the same service anyways

The Velo Orange BB's I have on mine and my fiancees tourers have held up perfectly but I haven't had time to ride more than 300 miles on mine. It has taken several pedal strikes in stride, though, which put a lot of stress on the BB

The friction shifter in lieu of a brake lever sounds interesting. Never heard of that setup before I must admit. Remember that you still need space for cable stops for the bar-end shifters, so you'll need another clamp on the downtube. And also use brake cable housing, not derailleur cable housing. Who knows, it might just be crazy enough to work!

pargeterw

I plan on trying this using a jubilee clip for the 'extra clamp', just to check it works. Who knows, I might start a craze?

jrecoi

As far as rear drum brake hubs go, I'd poke around to see what Moped stores have to offer. At least for brake shoes, they might be some that will work with Atom hubs.

As far as using them as the new rear hub, they have several issues. One is that the axle is thicker, 12mm. Second, they're on the narrow side, made for singlespeed freewheels, although the British rigged them with 5 speed freewheels in some early mountain bikes. and third, they're 36h.

This is one setup for a drag brake. I've seen a drag brake on a single arranged with a guidonette lever that runs along the flats of the dropbar. With the other 'empty' stem shifter, you could use it to actuate a Bottom Bracket dynamo, if you intend to mount dynamo lights.

JohnDThompson 

Re: the bottom brackets -- I wouldn't bother replacing them unless they're worn beyond redemption. Chances are, a simple cleaning and repacking with new balls is all that is needed. If you're replacing the wheels, be careful with hub selection. My 1983 Gitane tandem uses oversize tandem-specific hubs (10mm diameter front axle and 12mm diameter rear axle) so standard road hubs won't work in the dropouts. It also has a tandem-specific Atom freewheel, with 4 pawls instead of the usual two pawls. The hubs are also 40 holes front and rear, so be sure to buy the proper rims when replacing them. The drum brake is not intended to stop the bike by itself, but to take some of the work off the calipers so the rims don't overheat on long descents. My tandem came set up with both cantilevers operated by a single lever, and the drum on the other lever. A popular retrofit is to use the brake levers to operate the cantilevers separately, and put the drum brake on a bar-end shift lever to act as a drag brake. Just don't forget to release it at the bottom of the hill! The Stronglight P-3 headset is designed for use on a single bike, not a tandem; mine barely lasted one season before it needed replacement. I replaced it with a Stronglight Delta headset 25+ years ago and it's still going strong. Unfortunately, these have been out of production of many years, and I'm not sure of the tandem-worthiness of the Velo Orange metric headset. But there aren't many alternatives out there unless you can find something on eBay.

JohnDThompson 

English and French bottom brackets are close enough in diameter that re-threading as you suggest wouldn't leave a lot of metal to hold the cups, particularly on the NDS. You might get away with it on a single bike, but a tandem would be pushing your luck.

puchfinnland

please note asbestos was common untill the mid 90's
so wear precautions.

I have a diblasi folder from around 96-97 and I am 100% certain they are asbestos
the smoke was coming out of them coming down "The Rock" in Gibralter many many years ago
mike

JohnDThompson 

This isn't so much of a concern on a tandem, as it is virtually impossible to lift the rear wheel off the ground using only the front brake. But putting the brakes on separate levers does mean that the work of applying the brakes is spread over two hands instead of just one.

pargeterw

I hadn't thought of this, and it is a brilliant idea, but I'm afraid it'd only be implemented if I had cash left over (unlikely, I think!) We'll probabbly be doing all of our riding in the light...

pargeterw

Re: BB's - This remains to be seen! I'm going back to the right part of the country next week, and will take everything apart then and post some more pics on the blog, hopefully you're right!

Re: hub diameters - Thanks, this is interesting to know, and I'll watch out for it...

Re: Freewheel - I was vaguely aware of this; will a standard (2 pawl) freewheel work? (obviously it'll be quite weak, but since we're not a very strong team, and weigh around 310lb (140kg), do you think it'd be problematic?)

Re: Brake controls - We are planning on doing almost as you describe, but with the drum controlled by the existing friction shifters, and the gears by bar ends!

Re: Headset - I'm hoping that the existing one will be in good enough nick to just swap in a new stem (sanded down by 0.1mm)... I'll keep an eye out for the Delta on eBay though!

Thanks,

Will

pargeterw

Where are you expecting this asbestos? In the drum brake?

pargeterw

Yes, this is what I thought... : (

pargeterw

QUICK, EVERYBODY, BACK TO THE BLOG! (there's another post, which you may or may not be interested in...?)


https://gitaingaves.blogspot.co.uk/

Will

pargeterw

Hello everyone, (if, indeed anyone is still following this thread?)


There is a third (proper) (and probably final, at least until Christmas) post on the *NEW LOOK BLOG*


Even if you can't be bothered to read, or reply to this new literary masterpiece, you should go and have a look at the new background that I've made, as it took aaaaaaaaaaggggggggggeeeeeeeeeessssssssss and I don't want to feel that the work was wasted. (it was a bit of a dreary theme before, wasn't it?)


Much love to you all, and thank you for supporting me thus far,


Will

jrecoi

With the rear spacing to be 126mm, you could try looking on ebay for an FHR-700 hub. These are Shimano cassette hubs with a roller brake. A roller brake is Shimano's take on the drum brake, the dutch like them well enough. The existing roller brake on the FHR-700 is a bit undersized, but larger replacements are available on the online retailers. There is a latter day relative of this hub on sale on Petra Cycles.

As far as bottom brackets go, I have no idea what to say about the threading, reuse the spindle and cups if they're in good condition, loose balls are OK.

pargeterw

The OLN dimension is actually 124mm at the moment, so even for 126mm there would have to be some stretching. I've done some searching, and it doesn't look (as far as I can see) like I'll be able to get one of these, and one of the larger brakes that you mentioned, for less money than the Sturmey Archer... I'll probably go with this, but if I'm really being squeezed on the money, I may resume the search for a Shimano alternative. Thanks for the heads up though, always good to have a contingency plan!

wrk101

Highly doubt you will notice 2mm difference, and it will not be a stretch.

Hopefully you kept the old french bb, as long as they are in good shape, they will last a long, long, time with a little service (bearings and grease).

Early 1970s will be french threaded, by the late 1970s, many of the french bike companies were going to Swiss threaded, which is harder to find (but out there). But given two bb, why replace them unless you have to.


My french tandem came without the rear drum brake unfortunately, and was in poor condition when I got it (it had been sitting outside, locked to a fence, for several years). But it recovered nicely. The left hand brake lever on mine has two cable connections, so it controlled both rear brakes at once.

pargeterw

You should have a read of the Blog! Amongst other things, the most recent post discusses whether or not the current BB's are in good shape (I'd like second opinions on this), and also, why half of the bearing cups have "1.37x24" (the British thread) stamped on them, when they're (al)most definitely not! (Both are RH thread, so not Swiss, either).

The current levers on this have two connections on the right hand lever, which controlled both rim brakes, leaving the left solely for the drag brake. I propose to separate out the rim, brakes and put the drag onto a spare gear shifter! Again, if you're bored and have time on your hands, it's all in the Blog (although, there are a whole load of innane questions in the old posts, which I don't expect you to answer really, as most of it has been covered!)

wrk101

Fortunately, I have an ample supply of the various types of bb, so when in doubt, I just test fit them.

I would double check that right lever. I bet it originally controlled both rear brakes, and someone changed it later. Maybe not.