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Mannesmann tubing, why so discret?

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Mannesmann tubing, why so discret?

Old 09-10-12, 06:09 AM
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vasilebancila
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Mannesmann tubing, why so discret?

Today I saw a bike with only a small blue sticker, Mannesmann 34CrMo4. After googling I understend that Mannesmann is a fine tubing but even google cant find many bike made from this steel. Maybe some "Oria by Manessmann".

Why is that? Why no love for german tubing? Are those no valuable or colectable?
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Old 09-10-12, 07:34 AM
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I think the big tubing companies had such a stranglehold on the market in the '60s and '70s that if you used anything else you had to hide it. Or betting that your own rep was equal or better than theirs, like Eisentraut which rarely stated what was used where, like Rivendell today.

The metallurgical make-up of the big brands are remarkably similar and even when they ain't they give similar characteristics within their price range. Can anyone here tell the difference between Reynolds 531, Columbus SL or Vitus 172?

I for one dig lesser-known tubing for the novelty factor. Even Falck. In the '50s, the swedes built racing bikes with the same ChroMo tubes that Saab used in their fighter jets. One day I will have one of those!
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Old 09-10-12, 08:41 AM
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our finnish bikes are proud to say "rautarukki" tubes.
BFD its just finlands largest steel producer- this does not mean anything special for bikes.


but on your hand you may have a thing of quality-I am not sure
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Old 09-10-12, 08:51 AM
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Acoording to steelrenaissane, the specs of Manessman 34 (1,880kg!) are similar to the Oria 34ML and at the same level as Columbus Slx!

Very interesting tubeset!!


https://steelrenaissance.blogspot.ro/...Tubing%20Specs

https://steelrenaissance.blogspot.ro/...&by-date=false
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Old 09-10-12, 09:11 AM
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The German builder Nöll used to built with Mannesmann ...and still does I believe.

Nöll MTB range, mid 90s
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Old 09-10-12, 10:29 AM
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Mannesmann wasn't strictly German, it was a huge multi-national concern with factories in several European countries. They certainly sold their products throughout Europe and the entire world, at one time they were one of the largest producers of steel tubing (all sorts, all sizes, not just "bicycle" sized) in the world. It's known that they drew the tubing for the Italian firm Oria, but not well known how many other brands might have sourced tubing from a Mannesmann factory or supplier and then branded and sold it as their own...I'm sure there were others.
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Old 09-10-12, 11:41 AM
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Mannesmann's tubing factory for bicycle applications is in Italy not Germany. Back in the 30's-50's, Mannesmann Extra was likely the lightest tubing that you could get for bicycles. I have had two frames from that period built with it and it is crazy light for the period. Even Columbus does not "make" their own raw materials and use steel supplied by a third party, which they then perfect on their own.
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Old 09-10-12, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by puchfinnland View Post
our finnish bikes are proud to say "rautarukki" tubes.
BFD its just finlands largest steel producer- this does not mean anything special for bikes.


but on your hand you may have a thing of quality-I am not sure
Did they use "Rautrukki" tubing on bikes exported outside Finland. It would be a marketing headache to try and sell the bikes on basis of the tubing as the name just does not translate very well commercially outside of Finland. I wouldn't be surprised if people in the US might just call it "Turkey" tubing for short, not to put it down, but more of a cute slang like "Campy". People here are just lazy most of the time to try and pronounce Euro names correctly....that's why people think the French hates us so much when we go over there,.... I guess...

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Old 09-10-12, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
Did they use "Rautrukki" tubing on bikes exported outside Finland. It would be a marketing headache to try and sell the bikes on basis of the tubing as the name just does not translate very well commercially outside of Finland. I wouldn't be surprised if people in the US might just call it "Turkey" tubing for short, not to put it down, but more of a cute slang like "Campy". People here are just lazy most of the time to try and pronounce Euro names correctly....that's why people think the French hates us so much when we go over there,.... I guess...

Chombi
rauta rukki in finnish means "iron works"
well they do make good steel, in many ways beter then the italians!
fact-
Vespas were made with swedish steel untill the late 60's sometime around then the Italian State steelmills started quantity production of sheet steel to compete against sweden,
many italian steeled vespas rusted through under warrenty untill Italy started to figure out the formula for a quality steel.
now how many of us remember rusty 70's italian vehicles?
these nordic bikes are built like tanks
drive then snow or rain, leave them out in the weather all year round- I have never seen them rust through-let alone rust- the cheap components fail

this is a rautarukki decal-
I just pulled it off a 70's chrome fork(that is not rusty)
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Old 09-10-12, 01:04 PM
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What is intrigued for me is that a very famous and valuable bike, Pinarello Banesto, has a Oria 34ML frame whith exactly the same specification as Manessmann 34CrMo4. I know that the geometry is important, but still!
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Old 09-11-12, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by vasilebancila View Post
What is intrigued for me is that a very famous and valuable bike, Pinarello Banesto, has a Oria 34ML frame whith exactly the same specification as Manessmann 34CrMo4. I know that the geometry is important, but still!
Mannessmann actually supplied that tubing. They (i read somewhere) are also the place where dedacciai gets it's raw stuff. Over on the framebuilders forum a lot of threads like this pop up, usually starting with why is this and this steel not used for bikes, and the answer is usually that tubing sellers (like columbus, deda, etc.) have to buy in quantity from the big mills like mannesmann, arcelor etc. and the costs to do a small run of a tubing to certain specs is just too expensive.
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Old 09-18-12, 04:50 AM
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Well, I saw the guy again and I`m thinking about making him a offer. Ok, the tubing is rare, but is valuable? As in the same league as Reynolds 531 or the identical Oria 34?

Last edited by vasilebancila; 09-18-12 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 09-18-12, 05:24 AM
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The builder will have a lot to do with the value, as will the parts. If you want it to ride, I'd say it doesn't matter. This really can't be answered without knowing who made it.

FYI, some 531 frames sell cheap.
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Old 09-18-12, 05:51 AM
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34CrMo4 is just the steel alloy used.

It should be comparable to regular 4130 ChroMo, which several famous tubesets including Columbus SL is made of. The carbon content is just a little bit higher.

Ref: https://www.steelnumber.com/en/steel_...hp?name_id=333

The difference lies in how the tubes are drawn. Mannesmann supplied these as straight-gauge (non-butted), but with thinner walls than most other makers. Should be light.
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Old 09-18-12, 06:07 AM
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Thanks!

I guess (as 50%) is a Hercules road bike, whit some grey Shimano 105 stuff. The decals are gone.

Last edited by vasilebancila; 09-18-12 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 09-18-12, 06:23 AM
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I wouldn't worry about value of the tubing...it isn't something that's worth a fortune on resale. Ride it and have fun. If you're buying to flip it, proceed with caution.
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Old 09-18-12, 06:54 AM
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No, definetly not a flipper! Just searching for something "exotic" and not expensive for my garage.

By the way, the frame looks similar to this:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...annesmann-crmo
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