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cable stops for unusual downtube brazeons

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cable stops for unusual downtube brazeons

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Old 09-29-12, 07:53 PM
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cable stops for unusual downtube brazeons

Seek cable stops for downtube brazeon shown in photo. Frame is a Nishiki Tri-A from the 80s.


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Old 09-29-12, 08:04 PM
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I need cable stops for exactly the same braze-ons, '85 Centurion.
I have DT shifter collars for them, so at I can use them to get an underside view of what shape I need.
I may be able to file some normal Shimanos not only flat on the back, but as shallow as possible.

I'm not sure if I should try to modify the Shimanos I have, or see if I can find a Campy set that might work.

You'll also need a much smaller bolt/screw than the normal Shimano bolt.

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Old 09-29-12, 08:08 PM
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Search for Shimano bosses. There is a good thread about modifying the regular DT housing stops. I think the subject bike was a Raleigh Wyoming.


It was a Kodiak. http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...shifter+bosses

Here is another thread. http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...shifter+bosses

It is not an insurmountable problem just takes some time with a dremel and files.
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Old 09-30-12, 07:30 AM
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Old 09-30-12, 08:13 AM
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FYI, that Tri-A is a 1985 model. I'd appreciate the serial number for my database. TIA.
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Old 09-30-12, 08:33 AM
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Did the research as suggested by BianchiGirll. Amazing how much got lost in some people's perception of the problem, but the solution that came out (modified cable stops) was not that bad looking. I'm referring to the blog link that was in one of BG's links. There were a couple of photos of other "solutions," but I am not confident those were referring to the same problem.

The main issue is the size and shape of the B braze-on being incompatible with the cavity of the Shimano cable stop. In my case, there are three main differences: a) the braze-on round "post" is deeper than the cable stop can handle and get flush to the DT. b) the "key" on the front of the braze-on is in the way. c) the round "base" of the braze-on is larger in diameter than the cable stop's cavity, so "flush" against this round "base" is as close as that stop is going to get. The stop is simply not, without a lot of work either to the stop or the braze-on, going to be flush to the DT.

When you have too much material going into an incompatible space, you either modify the material or modify the space. If the frame hadn't already been repainted (hindsight-AAaargh), I'd take a file to the braze-on until the key was gone and test-fits of the cable stop looked ok. Too late for that. DT shifter collars hide a lot. DT cable stops do not.

Experience and observation and research of this particular problem supports slotting the cable stop to accommodate the "key" on the braze-on. The depth of the "post" and the circumference of the "base" will resist my equipment and skill limitations, as far as modifying space inside the cable stop. I actually thought about making a mold of the inside of the cable stop, then comparing it to the braze-on, to see where I could get the most "fit" for my modifcation efforts, after I made the key slot. Bugger that, I'm simply going to file a slot to accommodate the key, and get those in as close as possible, like the Raleigh Kodiak in blog.

The next problem, for me, will be the mounting bolts. I do not have the bolts from the shifters, and I don't want a bolt with a wide washer and clip on it, anyway. I'm pretty sure between force and JB Weld, something will work, if a quick run through Lowe's or Fastenal fails to find one. They only have to mount, successfully, one time. The force acting to move the stop is linear, along the DT, so I'm not worrying about the stop rotating or anything like that.

My hope is that my solution will look just like the blog results, as far as the fit of the stop up against the frame. The cable will not be so far out from the DT that it looks bad, the stop will perform as needed, and I'll ride the durn bike.

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Old 10-01-12, 04:28 AM
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Update:

steadyshifter has brought up the possibility of the Origin8 cable stops, which may be plastic, and much easier to modify. Since my build will be white and black, I ordered a set of these to hack on.

Another possibility is the black plastic model Shimano packaged with Tiagra and Sora STI's. Yet another possibility are the Cannondale cable stops used on the R700. They were odd looking, but may be easier to modify. Those bikes used flat-back stops on the removable posts.

I've also contacted several eBay sellers about a 4.5M bolt for the braze-on, and will update here. I know of one successful solution using 4.0 bolts and JB Weld.
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Old 10-01-12, 04:52 AM
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You can also retap the bosses with a 5mm bottoming tap. When I was building my Batavus I easily found some nice looking and even NOS shimano shifters but they all had 5mm bolts.
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Old 10-01-12, 06:34 AM
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Do you think it would be a "clean" re-tap with a hole that's already threaded? I've not done a lot of tapping/threading on anything smaller than 3/4" steel plumbing.

1st eBay bolt firm contacted said "no 4.5m bolts." Bummer, because he had some pretty Ti bolts.
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Old 10-04-12, 08:06 AM
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Did you check you local ACE or true value? I never did when I was doing my Batavus but then I wanted to use shifters so my screws needed to match the shifter.

A Gunsmith might be able to make the screws if he or you can find a Die.

I wonder what the backside of these look like.

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Old 10-04-12, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
Did you check you local ACE or true value? I never did when I was doing my Batavus but then I wanted to use shifters so my screws needed to match the shifter. Yep, nothing, not even at Fastenal.

A Gunsmith might be able to make the screws if he or you can find a Die.

I wonder what the backside of these look like. I should know in a few days, ordered a set last week.

I'm going to go at it with the two sets of DT stops I have/have coming (DA and the Origin8 above).
Doing that will probably get me at least one ruined set and one that works.

Then, I'll probably either use an M4 bolt dipped in JB Weld or drill slightly and re-tap with M5.
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Old 10-04-12, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
I'm going to go at it with the two sets of DT stops I have/have coming (DA and the Origin8 above).
Doing that will probably get me at least one ruined set and one that works.

Then, I'll probably either use an M4 bolt dipped in JB Weld or drill slightly and re-tap with M5.
OH yeah I was going to say you may want to drill. make sure you look for a Bottoming tap and let me know where you find it, I want one too.
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Old 10-04-12, 10:26 AM
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I think the curved to flat plastic pieces included with the downtube shifters
sold by Shimano have the matchung keyway.
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Old 10-04-12, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
I think the curved to flat plastic pieces included with the downtube shifters
sold by Shimano have the matchung keyway.
I think it depends on the era. I've had to modify collars to fit those braze-ons (on a Cilo) but I've also got a set that go right on them, including a cut-out for the key. A kind BF member gave them to me, and they may find themselve incorporated into this build.
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Old 10-07-12, 06:25 PM
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Update;

On a set of Shimano DT stops, the option shown in BG's large photo is not available. If you'll note the bosses on my white bike, the "key" is part of a round boss that extends 3-4 mm out from the DT, so a flush mount like the picture is not possible. That beautiful Nishiki has the same problem. Notching for the key does no good whatsoever, as the stop is not going to go over the round raised "base" of the stop.

I have not rec'd the Origin 8 black pastic stops yet. However, I spent about 45 minutes on a set of Shimano DA DT stops. Basically, for mine and steadyshifter's purposes, you have to file the entire back of the stop flat, leaving a ridge along the "barrel" where the cable runs. This brings the stop up flush against the round base of the braze-on. It's not a shifter mount, so you don't have to worry about it spinning, anyway.

An M4.5 bolt may be on the radar, which would complete the package. I'll still take a whack at the Origin 8 stops, but for now, the DA cable stop is how it needs to be. The cable will come in close to the DT, as intended. A good bolt will hold it just fine. My decision, right now, is more of an aesthetic one; paint the stops to match the bike or leave as is. No biggie either way.
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Old 10-07-12, 06:44 PM
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Wow. Robbie, as you know, I have that beautiful '85 Centurion that I converted to 10 speed in the back. Was seriously considering indexed using 7800/7900 DT shifters (no friction option on those, BTW, unlike 7700) but then realized the frame had these earlier mounts. Looked at the possibility of converting to the more typical 'square' mounts used by everyone else after 1985 but didn't want to mess up the original paint. Also considered a carve job on a new pair of concave cable stops, and I think it can be done. You need to use a Dremel and a teeny routing ball, take your time and be VERY CAREFUL but I think you can remove enough material from the interior of the cable stop to make it work, once you slot the cable stop housing.

Me? I used Shimano 6200 friction DT shifters. Works like a dream with the 10 speed cassette and chain.
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Old 10-07-12, 08:28 PM
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You may be able to remove enough of the inside material to fit down over the base of the braze-on, but it's going to leave it with a very thin shell, indeed. The diameter of the base is about midway between the diameter of the inside circular area of the stop, and the outer circumference of the stop itself. If you are successful in that case, a slot would be needed. I do not have the tools to round out the inside of that stop to accommodate the round "B" base, so flush was the way to go, and simply removing about the "inner" 1/3 of the stop gets it flush to the base.

On the Origin 8's, I predict that removing the middle 1/3 of each long side will probably allow it to fit over the base of the braze-on.
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Old 10-10-12, 08:30 PM
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Thank you Bianchigirll and RobbieTunes for your comments.

Ultimately I used Origin8 alloy cable stops and found it a reasonable task to fit them to the brazeons, which presented a circle and a forward facing key.

First step was to bore out the interiors of the stops by stages from 3/8 dia to 1/2 dia using a drill press and a vise, to fit over the circle of the brazeon.

Next step was to cut the slot to clear the key, using a hacksaw blade in a pad handle and a file.

Finally, these brazeons call for M4.5 machine screws rather than the M5 screws we find universally today to fasten cable stops.

After being told several times of the nonexistence of M4.5 screws, I found a supply in in Illinois. The rep was kind enough to I send me a small quantity as samples. I would be glad to pass on a pair of these screws to anyone who is in the same fix that I was.

RobbieTunes already has his on the way.
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Old 10-10-12, 09:00 PM
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^ I would love to get a couple of those 4.5mm screws for my Lotus. I'd send you a message but you won't be able to reply. I filed a notch into some Shimano cable stops and found that they fit over the boss, it's just the screw size that has been a problem for me.
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Old 10-10-12, 09:43 PM
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Cut the handles off the shifters and reverse their cable stops. I've seen this done with Campy units and not only does it work well, it looks great, too. No adjusters, but you don't need one for the front and the rear usually has its own.
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Old 10-10-12, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
I'm pretty sure between force and JB Weld, something will work, if a quick run through Lowe's or Fastenal fails to find one. They only have to mount, successfully, one time.
*waits for all the fixie haters howling about you permanently modifying a frame*























*keeps waiting*
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Old 10-12-12, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Blight View Post
Cut the handles off the shifters and reverse their cable stops. I've seen this done with Campy units and not only does it work well, it looks great, too. No adjusters, but you don't need one for the front and the rear usually has its own.
my limited imagination can't handle it, so a pic would be helpful. I don't have the shifters, but there's always another challenge just down the road.
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Old 10-12-12, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by frantik View Post
*waits for all the fixie haters howling about you permanently modifying a frame*
























Originally Posted by frantik View Post
*keeps waiting*
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Old 10-12-12, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by steadyshifter View Post


Thank you Bianchigirll and RobbieTunes for your comments.

Ultimately I used Origin8 alloy cable stops and found it a reasonable task to fit them to the brazeons, which presented a circle and a forward facing key.

First step was to bore out the interiors of the stops by stages from 3/8 dia to 1/2 dia using a drill press and a vise, to fit over the circle of the brazeon.

Next step was to cut the slot to clear the key, using a hacksaw blade in a pad handle and a file.

Finally, these brazeons call for M4.5 machine screws rather than the M5 screws we find universally today to fasten cable stops.

After being told several times of the nonexistence of M4.5 screws, I found a supply in in Illinois. The rep was kind enough to I send me a small quantity as samples. I would be glad to pass on a pair of these screws to anyone who is in the same fix that I was.

RobbieTunes already has his on the way.
This is what happens when grown-ups get involved. Success.
Thanks a ton for your expertise.
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Old 06-24-13, 02:58 PM
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Richbiker
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Would you be willing to share the source of the M4.5 bolts? I did a quick search, which turned up a company called Screws Industries (fun name?) in Glendale IL, but it looks like they don't sell directly to consumers.


[QUOTE=steadyshifter;14828782

Thank you Bianchigirll and RobbieTunes for your comments.

Ultimately I used Origin8 alloy cable stops and found it a reasonable task to fit them to the brazeons, which presented a circle and a forward facing key.

First step was to bore out the interiors of the stops by stages from 3/8 dia to 1/2 dia using a drill press and a vise, to fit over the circle of the brazeon.

Next step was to cut the slot to clear the key, using a hacksaw blade in a pad handle and a file.

Finally, these brazeons call for M4.5 machine screws rather than the M5 screws we find universally today to fasten cable stops.

After being told several times of the nonexistence of M4.5 screws, I found a supply in in Illinois. The rep was kind enough to I send me a small quantity as samples. I would be glad to pass on a pair of these screws to anyone who is in the same fix that I was.

RobbieTunes already has his on the way.[/QUOTE]
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