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Please help Identify this Claud Butler frame circa 1958-62

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Please help Identify this Claud Butler frame circa 1958-62

Old 09-30-12, 04:02 PM
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Please help Identify this Claud Butler frame circa 1958-62

Hi folks,

My father in law has past on to me his old bike as he is no longer able to ride. He bought it as a bare frame somewhere between 1958 and 1962 as a "2nd quality" Claud Butler, without any markings. The components have been swapped out several times over the past 50 years, so aren't very helpful, and the paint is not original. Under the BB it is stamped "515", and slightly below that "X". I've checked the steerer tube and there was a piece of old tape round it on which "No 515" has been written.

Attached are some pictures of the lugs, which I'm assuming will be the most relevant in identifying the frame, but if there is anything more specific I can look at I'd be grateful if anyone could point me in the right direction. They don't seem to resemble any of the lugs I've seen in the catalogues I've found at https://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/ClaudButler.htm

I've tapped along the main tubes and from the change in pitch it sounds like butted tubing.







Thanks!
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Old 09-30-12, 04:08 PM
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post a drive side picture of the whole bike and the dropouts
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Old 09-30-12, 04:39 PM
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Here are the requested photos - I hope they're detailed enough (my camera is not the best!)
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Old 09-30-12, 05:30 PM
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I don't have anything to offer other than to say that this is well worth the effort of keeping together and keeping it in riding condition. Looks like a real winner to me.
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Old 09-30-12, 05:41 PM
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Seriously cool bike.

Just to nit-pick, even straight-gauge tubes change pitch depending on where I tap them... The only thing I've been able to discern from tapping is the quality of the alloy. Good steel = long ring, bad steel = short thump.
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Old 09-30-12, 07:41 PM
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It could be older than the time period cited.... stock that was available and wasn't sold. Looking at those catalogs, that style of head lugs is called cut-away by CB and done for lighter weight..... I believe I see those head lugs on the 1955 DeLuxe frame. The seat stay tops were called fluted and chamfered by CB, as you see in the 1954 New All Rounder model. I guess one would peg your frame as a DeLuxe, based on the lugs because you could get what you wanted from CB on that model, and so the fork crown and many other details need not match, but the lugs seem definitive to me. That's a nice frame....
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Old 09-30-12, 08:09 PM
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I think your date range is accurate. The Allarounder used a Bilaminate lug which was a more of a sleeve than a lug. Cool bike, what are your plans?
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Old 10-01-12, 01:17 AM
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Thanks for the advice guys, it is much appreciated. I'm pleased to hear it's definitely a CB. I'm not sure where to go with it yet, but since the finish is poor and not original anyway, I was thinking about stripping it all back and respraying/retransfering in something more appropriate to its age, then reassembling with more modern components, possibly as a fixed. I'm not worried about making it look pure and authentic at close inspection, but it would be nice to look the part at first glance. Any suggestions as to an appropriate colour scheme for a 1955 DeLuxe would be gratefully received.

Does anyone have a vague idea of what it might be worth? I'm assuming that it's not really worth much, and that therefore I'm not running the risk of "ruining" something precious, but it would nice to be sure.
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Old 10-01-12, 03:14 AM
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They are not worth very much but they are pretty desirable to folks like us who like to tinker on old bikes. If you do a half-way decent paint job,replace the transfers and fit it up as a fixed gear (It's likely it was originally fixed) you could have a really nice ride. Using the CB transfers would link it to the past so it could be returned to service at some point.
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Old 10-01-12, 04:48 AM
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I'm pleased to hear it's definitely a CB.
??? I don't think anyone said that, just assumed from your description. You'd have to identify it with a #, decaling under the paint or a badge, maybe some original paperwork. from the photo's it could be any #' of builders. IMO
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Old 10-01-12, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Velognome
??? I don't think anyone said that, just assumed from your description. You'd have to identify it with a #, decaling under the paint or a badge, maybe some original paperwork. from the photo's it could be any #' of builders. IMO
Unfortunately there is no paperwork, and the only numbering is as I described above. To clarify, I'm most interested in identifying what the frame is - if it turns out not to be a CB that's fine, but it would be nice to know a bit more about it. It's always possible that my father in law was misled 50 years ago when it was bought, but he said he was told it was a Claud Butler "2nd", so that's where I'm starting from. When Peter_B suggested above that "the lugs seem definitive to me" I assumed he was right, but looking in more detail at the pictures of the CB cut-away lugs on the 1955 DeLuxe here https://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgar...meFeatures.jpg they don't look quite the same to me.

Assuming that it is not a CB, does anyone recognise that style of lug or can anyone give me a suggestion where else to look?

Thanks again for your collective expertise.
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Old 10-01-12, 11:51 AM
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So this may be difficult. Claud Butler closed his shop in 56/57? and sold the machinery to Holdsworth (I think) then in '59 opened again. from '59-62 there were 3 "frames" available Challenge, Cordon Bleu and begining in '62 the Coureur. Your bike doesn't match these. Also in '59 Claud butler was also a dealer, selling other Mfg's. Being that your Father in Law called the bike a 2nd quality, I would venture to think your frame is one of those.

I found this pageon Classic Lightweights on a 1962 Viking Severn Valley 8 which seems share the same Lugs and some details of your bike

https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/avtviking.html


Last edited by Velognome; 10-01-12 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 10-02-12, 12:39 AM
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Thanks so much for taking the time to look into this. It looks to me like the headtube lugs on that Viking look the same as mine where they join the top and down tubes, but my lugs don't have the extra "hole in the corner" cutout that the Nervex Pro lugs all seem to share, so I think the mystery is sadly still unsolved
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