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Shimano 600 heavier than 105!

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Shimano 600 heavier than 105!

Old 10-22-12, 08:27 AM
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trek330
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Shimano 600 heavier than 105!

I bought some shimano 600 brake calipers from e bay since the barrel adjuster was busted on my existing 105s, series 1050, and that would complete my swap to Shimano 600 (6400 series) tri colored and weighed the different calipers and was surprised to see that the 600 was 15 grams heavier a pair!!I'm pretty sure they are the same generation brakes.Why is the 600 considered higher up in the hierarchy?Fancy colors?the brake pads do have a shell around them.
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Old 10-22-12, 08:41 AM
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Old 10-22-12, 09:02 AM
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Hi there,

At Velobase, the 105 (1050)calipers are said to be 380 grams and the 600 (6400) 360... 600 are a couple of years younger so I don't know what happened to your set, maybe heavier replacement bolts?
But it's not all about weight, quality can be found in other features as well.

Cheers
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Old 10-22-12, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Zieleman View Post
Hi there,

At Velobase, the 105 (1050)calipers are said to be 380 grams and the 600 (6400) 360... 600 are a couple of years younger so I don't know what happened to your set, maybe heavier replacement bolts?
But it's not all about weight, quality can be found in other features as well.

Cheers
I have 1050 calipers and the 6400 calipers, and as far as I can tell, the only difference is the anodizing, and the brake bolt (hex bolt on the 105, and allen key on the 600).
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Old 10-22-12, 03:31 PM
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According to my Shimano literature, the 6400 are 25g heavier than than the 1050 for a pair of calipers.
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Old 10-22-12, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
According to my Shimano literature, the 6400 are 25g heavier than than the 1050 for a pair of calipers.
12 grams per caliper = beefier caliper, less flex; stiffer braking action?

Either way, either model will get the job done.
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Old 10-22-12, 04:31 PM
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I think calipers got heavier when they went to dual pivot. I know that Shimano 6400 started out as signal pivot, and later went to dual pivot. Are you comparing single pivot to the later dual pivot?
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Old 10-22-12, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sjpitts View Post
I think calipers got heavier when they went to dual pivot. I know that Shimano 6400 started out as signal pivot, and later went to dual pivot. Are you comparing single pivot to the later dual pivot?
No,Exactly the same.BTW the pads(600) are slightly heavier than the new ones on my 105s.I heard somewhere the 105s were so well thought of, back when, that those with Dura Ace used to switch them to 105s!!
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Old 10-22-12, 05:19 PM
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Yup, once the French were dying and gone from the component scene, the other companies didn't really worry too much about satisfying the weight weenies with their aluminum components,..........except for their CF stuff, of course....

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Old 10-22-12, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sjpitts View Post
I think calipers got heavier when they went to dual pivot. I know that Shimano 6400 started out as signal pivot, and later went to dual pivot. Are you comparing single pivot to the later dual pivot?
The single pivot was BR 6400, the dual pivot is BR 6403
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Old 10-23-12, 07:00 AM
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Shimano introduced their Shimano Linear Response (SLR) brakeset in 1987 on the New 105 group (1050 series). Shimano had gone on a friction reducing scourge, resulting in a brakest with a light fee and improved modulation. It created a real stir and lots of racers adopted them. However, in 1988 SLR trickled up to 600 Ultegra (6400) series and racers had a more upscale model to use. It didn't make it's way to Dura-Ace until 1989. So, New 105 were the brakes to have for one season - 1987.

As for the weight discrepancy, I can't say exactly where it is, but there is a difference in the quick release mechanism. This may be part, if not all, of it. As suggested the castings may be slightly beefier for more rigidty but I can't make a definitive statement.

It's not unusual for higher end equipment to sometimes be slightly heavier. 1989 Dura-Ace SLR is also heavier than both 600 Ultegra and New 105. Here, the difference is more obvious, including more metal, in things like the quick relase lever where it would add more weight but increase the reliability/durability, which is a concern on professional grade equipment. The classic example is SunTour's derailleur line. Things get progressively lighter, up to Cyclone, then their professional model Superbe/Superbe Pro has a substantial weight gain, presumably for greater reliability/durability. In the racing would, you need components that can take a licking but keep on working.
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Old 10-23-12, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuckk View Post
Not in the 88-90 world I remember. 105's were almost toy like compared to 600's.
On the other hand, 600's were considered "good enough to race with" rather than DA for cat racers.
Huh? I have both sets and the performance (and looks) are almost identical. Not to mention the king himself seemed to think the 105 slr brakes were the best single pivot ever made. https://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sa-o.html#slr



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Old 10-23-12, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by not_me View Post
Huh? I have both sets and the performance (and looks) are almost identical. Not to mention the king himself seemed to think the 105 slr brakes were the best single pivot ever made. https://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sa-o.html#slr
There's most definitely a family resemblance but they're certainly not twins. The quick release, barrel adjuster and front nut are different. While I wouldn't call the New 105 toy like in appearance, the 600 Ultegra do look more upscale in all three areas of difference, though personally I prefer the finish on the new 105 arms.

The reason for the 105 's reputation is that they raised the bar so much compared to their contemporaries. Once the technology trickled up to 600 Ultegra and Dura-Ace they were no longer special, but they're more revered because they were first. (Everybody knows that Roger Bannister ran the first sub 4 minute mile but hardly anybody can name who ran the 2nd or 3rd.) Four years later, Shimano changed the playing field by bringing out dual-pivot, so single pivot technology pretty much died, with SLR being the last big improvement.

Some would argue that 105 SLR were best because they were first or offered indistinguishable performance at less weight and price. Conversely, some would argue that Dura-Ace SLR performed better and were more refined and durable. Some would even argue that Dura-Ace SLR is better just because it's more expensive and has snob appeal. All the arguments are valid, depending on how you define "best".
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Old 10-23-12, 07:47 PM
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I used, and still do use, 1050 single pivots on some bikes.
I prefer them with polished Tektro pads.

I just always liked the finish and the feeling that they were light.

Because I think they're lighter, that makes them so.

Besides, they have a good beat and you can dance to them.
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