that_guy_zach

I picked up this bike as a frame over the weekend and put it together with some goodies I had sitting around. I love it and have been riding it everywhere,everyday but it does not have the "twitchy" feel I love about C Dales. Am I looking for a Crit geo frame, or something newer or older? Best I can tell this one is a 95 or 96

ThermionicScott 

Hmm, that can't be right. Is the frame cracked anywhere?

richpool

I think it could also be your riding position your bars are about even with you seat and you have a positive rise stem which screams relaxed riding. The older criterium frames were made to race, which would put you in a race or more aero riding position, which would make them feel even more twitch. Try a stem with negative rise.

WNG

That looks like a 3.0 frame. I have (had) a 94 R500 3.0.
The crit frames (2.8) had a larger diameter downtube.

canyoneagle

Yep, bars look too high and are tilted a bit too far back for the aggressive riding stance you seek. Those platform pedals need to go, too, if you really want to ride it like it wants to be ridden.
If that is a 3.0 frame, the last word I'd use to describe the ride would be "laid back". I had one of those and it was brutally stiff, very responsive, and was GREAT for crit-style riding.

Chombi

Is that some sort of adjustable angle stem......if it is, then adjustment should be just a turn of a wrench away till you find the sweet spot to get the bike to wake up.......I do hope it's not one of those goofy springed suspension stem that might contribute to the less than resposive feel of the bike.

Chombi

that_guy_zach

Its a Giant adjustable stem. The seat is a little higher now, but it still does not give me the feeling the Black Lightning I had did when it was set up the same way. I never run really aggressive saddle/bar drop. Im gonna play with the stem some and see what happens.

RobbieTunes

I think it just got old, gained weight, and slowed down.

bradtx

t_g_z, That's a 2.8 frame so it's not crit geometry, rather road race. I don't find my crit bike twitchy, is that your usual frame size?

Brad

qcpmsame 

I had a 300, it was a super riding bike and wish I had it still. My current 2 C'Dales ride well also, never felt the jarring ride often talked about, maybe I am just an ironass and can't feel these things. The 1990 SR300 handled quick but wasn't what I would call twitchy or stiff/jarring, just a good stable crit bike. It was a down tube shifter, 7 speed cassette, suited me perfectly. I'd definitely keep, restore or maybe a period correct restoration, not overboard and ride yours.

T-Mar

+1, it appears to a frame with their later, road racing geometry. The ealier criterium frame were steeper, shorter and had less trail.

that_guy_zach

Thanks, Thats what I needed to know. Looks like this one is gonna find a new home.

MNTC

I have my 3.0 Road Race set up with an short older Cinelli stem and could see this setup described as twitchy, but not to a degree that it causes problems. Maybe "sensitive" is the right word. I agree with the other posters who suggested you try a standard style stem, since this is cheap and quick.
I also noticed you have your saddle a few cm further back than mine. Perhaps this frame is too small for you to get the twitchy feel you're after.

Or, maybe I don't actually know what you mean by "twitchy." When it comes to matters of fit and geometry riders' preferences vary widely.

Chrome Molly

I seem to remember the early SR's had "issues" with toe strikes, enough so that it was a somewhat common thing to discuss back when. Was a fairly common 4 bomb cause. They were awesome stiff crit bikes though, just had to be a little patient coming out of the corners.

canyoneagle

I definitely experienced toe strike on my 3.0 ('89 if memory serves) with 170mm cranks and size 43 shoes.

bradtx

Same shoe size with 172.5 mm crankarms and no toe strike for me on my '89 crit bike. Which fork did you have, steel or aluminum?

Brad

Trakhak

Toe strike is possible only at walking speed and impossible at crit cornering speed.

RFC

+1 Thank you. Toe strike myth debunked.

yosarian9

What makes you say that?
The distance between shoe and tire doesnt change based on speed so i cant see how speeding up makes it "impossible".
Please explain this.

bradtx

When riding at anything above a walking pace the handlebars aren't turned to the point that the front wheel will interfere with the shoes.

Brad

Chrome Molly

In normal riding (smooth cornering, and using body weight instead of steering to initiate corners more gradually), the front wheel stays more aligned, and you won't toe strike. Toestrike happens when you use steering to quickly initiate a corner, and when you countersteer to exit it. In a corner, you won't be able to do it, unless you suddenly decide to change your line, which of course never happens in a criterium... We'll have to agree to disagree about this, but I've both crashed, and been involved in crashes where toe strike was clearly the culprit.

You can steer your bike a lot without crashing at speed, definitely enough to toe strike. Is the front wheel also sliding, maybe, not sure what the sidewall is doing, but once you toe strike the rest is academic. I used to practice how far I could steer without toe striking, while riding at a fair pace, so I know it is not impossible above walking speeds.

yosarian9

I fixed it with the red.