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-   -   Color opinions (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/859376-color-opinions.html)

AZORCH 11-27-12 06:18 AM

@Cyclotaine, rootboy: I'll get some closeup shots made tonight (hopefully tonight - as we close in on final exams and the end of the semester my world has gotten craaaaaazzzzzyyy.) I normally would've done that before now anyway. I don't know that these questions ever get put to bed definitively, but I'd like a small degree of confidence!

nlerner 11-27-12 06:45 AM


Originally Posted by auchencrow (Post 14987871)
It is true that Reynolds stickers are fragile but then again, it's not that unusual for a Reynolds sticker to survive from '71 (As below) . Also, I think the "restoration" of C&V bikes is a relatively new development - While I cannot categorically rule out a repaint - I don't think that so many people were professionally repainting their used old ten-speeds 30, or even 20 years ago.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...72-Green1a.jpg

Auchen, what model Raleigh is that?

auchencrow 11-27-12 07:09 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 14988403)
Auchen, what model Raleigh is that?

It's my 71/72 Super Course. (It qualifies as another one of those smokin' hot deals. :))

nlerner 11-27-12 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by auchencrow (Post 14988446)
It's my 71/72 Super Course. (It qualifies as another one of those smokin' hot deals. :))

Well, then it has the wrong Reynolds decal! That looks to be the one for double-butted 531 tubing. The 71/72 Super Course was straight gauge. Here's the decal from a '71 Super Course I used to own:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...rCourse531.jpg

AZORCH 11-27-12 07:29 AM

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8483/8...95cdf25c_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8338/8...d1eb2e12_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8480/8...3413cbb2_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8485/8...8687b8f1_c.jpg
Also, a few more "down and dirty" quick detail shots have been added to the end of my Flickr set at http://www.flickr.com/photos/azorch/...th/8223115955/

Didn't have a chance to pull the fork to check for overspray last night. That'll be next up.

nlerner 11-27-12 07:39 AM

Hmm, here's the Reynolds decal on a '72 Int'l that I bought from the original owner. Note the absence of the yellow band at the bottom:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y...lOriginal5.jpg

fender1 11-27-12 08:07 AM

Clearly a repaint. Paint however you wish. You are not destroying something"rare" or "unusual".

ColonelJLloyd 11-27-12 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by AZORCH (Post 14987759)
Curiouser and curiouser.

If one is really wanting to believe it's original paint, I guess. Seems pretty clear to me that the paint is not original for all the reasons nlerner listed previously. I think the way the red paint has chipped and the lack of lug lining is also telling.


Originally Posted by AZORCH (Post 14987759)
The paint has been on the tubes for a long time and it would've been unusual to have spent the money to get a repaint on a bike that would've been thought of as relatively new.

I don't know why you think it would have been that unusual to have a bicycle re-painted in the early 70s. There was increased interest in cycling with plenty of auto painters available.

rhm 11-27-12 08:09 AM

I agree with several of the opinions already voiced, and reject others utterly. To avoid giving offense, I'll not mention anything specific.

Azorch, if you care about the originality of your existing paint, leave it alone. If not, not.

I, knowing nothing about Internationals and unable to see the color red, don't believe it's original and I don't like it well enough to want to preserve it.

So I suggest you repaint it with a transparent gold clearcoat over the chrome and otherwise an opalescent dark blue and perhaps pearl colored panels on head tube and seat tube. Get some fenders and paint them the same blue with the same pearl flag at the back of the rear one.

Then get the really cool script I_n_t_e_r_n_a_t_i_o_n_a_l_ decal for the top, even if it isn't correct for whatever year your bike is/was/mightabeen.

auchencrow 11-27-12 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 14988484)
Well, then it has the wrong Reynolds decal! That looks to be the one for double-butted 531 tubing. The 71/72 Super Course was straight gauge. Here's the decal from a '71 Super Course I used to own:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...rCourse531.jpg

Neal - That's weird.
I have 4 Super Courses - (all with the original decals AFAIK) - and both of my Capella-lugged '73's have the horizontal 531 decal and both of the '71/72's have the slant 531. They all have the same 26.4 seat posts, indicating straight gauged tubing.
I'm inclined to think that Raleigh just used what they had on hand. After all, the label doesn't say "double butted". - It's just slanted.

nlerner 11-27-12 08:33 AM


Originally Posted by auchencrow (Post 14988633)
Neal - That's weird.
I have 4 Super Courses - (all with the original decals AFAIK) - and both of my Capella-lugged '73's have the horizontal 531 decal and both of the '71/72's have the slant 531. They all have the same 26.4 seat posts, indicating straight gauged tubing.
I'm inclined to think that Raleigh just used what they had on hand. After all, the label doesn't say "double butted". - It's just slanted.

I can't see the right side of your Super Course's decal: Does it say "butted tubes, forks, and stays" as the In'tl one I show above? At any rate, that's the two Reynolds options: straight gauge or butted. I don't believe any decal says "double butted."

fender1 11-27-12 08:38 AM

This thread should be re-titled: :"Auchen Gets Schooled by Nlerner!"

rootboy 11-27-12 08:50 AM

Ooo. Ouch. You're a tough nut, Fender1. Well, after seeing those detail shots, and those Reynolds decals, which are, what? ...1975 vintage?...I have to agree that it looks like a re-paint. Well, imo I'd still use paint to re-do it as opposed to powder. I'm just old fashioned, however.

nlerner 11-27-12 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by AZORCH (Post 14988493)

It also looks like that Reynolds decal on your fork is later than 1971. Here's the '72 Reynolds catalog page from Velo Pages:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M...age%252011.jpg

I've also commonly seen Carlton "race approved" fork decals on Raleigh road bikes of that era rather than Reynolds.

TimmyT 11-27-12 08:56 AM


Originally Posted by auchencrow (Post 14983910)
Raleigh did do some factory paint jobs that were not cataloged. The purple Competitions come to mind - and these are especially desirable.
I could be wrong, but I'd bet yours is an original factory finish too.

Neither the green, purple, nor white Raleigh Competitions are cataloged, and that's because the Competitions are absent from the catalog in those years, 1970-72, I believe.

Maroon, however, is not a well-known example.


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 14987449)
I'm completely with the "it's-your-bike; do-what-you-want-with-it"

+1. I'd personally go with chartreuse on this bike because Raleigh lightweights with chartreuse are effin' hot.

The exception to the "do what you want" rule, is that the rear rack needs to be levelled in a big way.

lostarchitect 11-27-12 08:59 AM

Very nice bike. Wish it was mine.

I agree that it is most likely not original. That said, I think the burgundy paint is cool, and if I was to repaint it I'd consider using the same color.

rhm 11-27-12 09:04 AM

True, there are two kinds of tubing --butted and straight gauge-- but there's also the question of the stays and the fork blades. Auchen's decal doesn't say 'butted' but there's room for the words stays & forks at the bottom.

I have heard it said many times, but never seen any evidence for the assumption the diagonal 531 means butted tubes. There certainly are decals without the diagonal that say butted tubes.

rootboy 11-27-12 09:04 AM

OK. We need to come to some consensus on this. Is it Maroon, Burgundy or , as Auchen' so elegantly puts it, Claret?

I'm kind of leaning toward metallic Chianti. Oh wait, it'a an English bike.

fender1 11-27-12 09:05 AM

Burgundy mist?

ColonelJLloyd 11-27-12 09:08 AM


Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 14988754)
Oh wait, it'a an English bike.

Which is why claret is a good choice. Claret is the English word for a Bourdeaux blend. The "t" is not silent.

auchencrow 11-27-12 09:14 AM


Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd (Post 14988766)
Which is why claret is a good choice. Claret is the English word for a Bourdeaux blend. The "t" is not silent.

Thank you Colonel. - And I'll stick to my original Claret guns (-unless there is overspray of another color lurking on the steerer tube :o) .

AZORCH 11-27-12 09:15 AM

OK, just as I thought I was getting confuseder and confuseder, a bright shining moment of clarity rose over the horizon, coming in the form of a message from the original owner: "Mark, the Raleigh was repainted in the mid-70's." This explains the Reynolds graphics looking like they're three or four decades old, because they are. Thus, while there might be a rare, dust-covered burgundy original occupying space in someone's garage somewhere (I don't think so), mine is definitively not one; that particular discussion now becomes academic at this point.

Thanks, nlerner for the Reynolds decal schooling. And Auchen, I'm of the same thought as you when it comes to decals - I think that some builders stuck on whatever they had on hand (Peugeot certainly did so.)

And now, in an unexpected and convoluted - but very interesting fashion! - this brings the discussion back around to the original question, which is that of color. Since original paint is no longer an issue, and apparently the Reynolds decals are also not correct, I'm much less concerned about the loss of a "rare" original paint treatment. I'd also like to protect the tubing in an aesthetically pleasing, yet appropriate color. Out of the colors choices from my original post, I think I like the burgundy with the gold and chrome, and to perhaps repop the decals and line the lugs using gold. An option I hadn't considered was the suggestion of black with gold - that too would be quite striking.

Thanks for all the insight, folks. And here's hoping that no other unexpected paint discoveries await me. (You know, like I finish stripping the frame and the PO calls me: "Oh and Mark, just by the way - the guy I had paint the bike was some fellow that went by the name of Picasso...")

EDIT: BTW, I rather like "Claret" myself and vow to use it henceforth.

auchencrow 11-27-12 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14988752)
True, there are two kinds of tubing --butted and straight gauge-- but there's also the question of the stays and the fork blades. Auchen's decal doesn't say 'butted' but there's room for the words stays & forks at the bottom.

I have heard it said many times, but never seen any evidence for the assumption the diagonal 531 means butted tubes. There certainly are decals without the diagonal that say butted tubes.

It just says "tubes" on the right side.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...noldsdecal.jpg

Pars 11-27-12 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 14988711)
It also looks like that Reynolds decal on your fork is later than 1971. Here's the '72 Reynolds catalog page from Velo Pages:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M...age%252011.jpg

I've also commonly seen Carlton "race approved" fork decals on Raleigh road bikes of that era rather than Reynolds.

Both my '73 International, and my RRA have the upper right slanted decal, as well as the fork decals, and I believe that is what your International should have. Forgive me if you had already come to that conclusion and I missed it as I just did a quick read. The actual Reynolds decals are quite fragile, and degrade if you look cross-eyed at them :)

auchencrow 11-27-12 09:27 AM

Azorch -
Even now that we know it's unoriginal, I still like the claret color of your bike: It has my vote, if you care to refinish it - and I agree that the gold accents would look great!


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