Need a little help from the pros - which makes and models are CLASSICS?
 

Hi. I originally posted this question in the commuting section, but some of the friendly vets suggested I post it here.

Let me very briefly clarify what I want to find out here. I'm mainly a commuter, and I commute frequently. I've been wanting to learn more about bikes but it's been slow. So far I've owned two big box store bikes. Now I think I'm ready to buy some quality vintage bikes. Previously the bikes I owned cost all of $50 at yard sales. I'm looking to invest up to $250 for my next bike, but the range of choices is bewildering!

I was wondering if the more experienced folks could chime in. When it comes to vintage bikes, are there particular makes and models that stand out as "classics"? If that question is too broad, let me change it to ask specifically about your "entry level" classics.

I'm looking for ideas of which bikes might be called classic in the following categories:

1. Vintage road bikes that felt high performance even at a modest price

2. Vintage road bikes that accepted a fatter tire (32c-37c fat)

3. Most versatile vintage bikes - Is there a "Surly Cross Check" for vintage bikes? Based on limited research, I would answer with the "Bianchi Volpe." But if I'm incorrect please let me know.

4. Vintage mountain bikes - I'm not concerned about this category because, very broadly speaking, mountain bikes kind of perform w/ similar characteristics when fitted with slicks and turned into commuters.

5. Vintage hybrid bikes - I don't believe any of these actually exist, because as far as I know, "hybrid" frame bikes, by the most common definition, are really a modern invention. But if I'm wrong please, feel free to correct me.

I know I'm asking a lot here, but I'd greatly appreciate any info at all. Thanks.

It's not about any brand or model. Specs changed every year. So what might have been great one year, might be average another year.

Savvy buyers focus on condition, frame material and components. Brand and model is secondary.

The two natural choices for what you describe are touring bikes and rigid frame mtbs. Your budget is too low for a nice vintage touring bike. Around here, good ones, ready to ride, go for $400. Higher end ones even more. That leaves a rigid frame MTB. Google is your friend, been discussed hundreds if not thousands of times.

Get knowledgeable, get lucky, or get taken. Quick and dirty falls into the get taken category.

Hm. Not what I was hoping to hear because I wanted a quick and dirty "vintage buyers reference." But absolutely a good answer - thanks friend! :)

You'll never get one. ;)

We're constantly debating what's "classic" and what's "vintage." C&V bikes are great, but there's much to learn, so stick around. :thumb:

For a reference, click on any of the larger threads in this forum.

As Bill says, components make the bike and, if you are shopping for something used, this should be the deciding factor. Far too many people have a Bianchi for sale at a marked up price, hoping that a newbie will come along and pay top dollar for it based on the marquee. Don't be that newbie, be the guy that recognizes that the old Centurion with a hardly used Shimano 600 group for a hundred bucks is the real bargain.

Anything steel from Bianchi built in Italy before 1995.



On a more serious note, the OP has unknowingly opened a rean can of gummie worms ;)

Bah humbug. I'm grumbling because I thought there would be a few easy standouts. But this makes sense. I'll have to become more educated, and I don't think there's any way to become that quickly except buy and ride which takes years *moan.*

My long term plan is to build up a "stable" of vintage bikes that do different things: one performance bike for centuries, one fat tire bike as a townie, one touring bike (this could also be the same as the townie, I don't know), and one beater mountain bike for bad weather and everything else.

Until now I really haven't paid much attention to groupsets. I figure why bother to learn about components when the most I can afford is Shimano 105? People say the 105 groupset is a very good value anyway, so why try to research DuraAce if I'll never be able to ride it anyway. So, that's that.

Nothing is that easy with bicycles... I now have four of them for different purposes. Only took me 5 years.

Started with this for $15
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...s/DW_C2212.jpg

Bear in mind that the easy standouts are the most-desired ones. Your plan is to save money over the cost of a new bike, right? ;)

The nice thing about older bikes is that they often have more tire and fender clearance, so you may be able to combine several of your planned builds into a couple very flexible builds. Heck, google "650B conversion" and you may be able to make one bike do all of those jobs. :thumb:

Check out the English 3-speed thread for some bikes that will do the city and bad-weather riding for a low price.

Thanks ThermionicScott and Texas - I appreciate the encouragement! :)

IMHO, the frame material and components are more important to learn about than specific "classic" models. Other than certain top of the line marquees, most makers offered a range of bikes, starting at the bottom with plain steel frames and cheap components, up to the higher-end models with better components and frame materials. A super simplified guide to a decent vintage bike is anything built with 531 or Columbus frame tubing, (or butted cro-moly), and Shimano 600/ultegra/dura ace, or Campagnolo components. Find one with like that for under $100 in your size, and you probably have a "classic". But there are just as many classic bikes that don't fit that description. Welcome to the club.

Unless you get awfully lucky, $250.00 will not get you anything close to a classic, in my opinion. That kind of money will get you something, that is, at best, mid range quality. Of course, I did mention "get lucky" as I did when I found this Gary Fisher "Hybrid" which is more like a cross bike, at the Dump this Summer past...

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...3&d=1349795315

...I doubt that I would consider selling it for anything close to what the OP's budget would allow, though. It is a really nice bike to get around on. As was this Bianchi Volpe that I had a couple of years ago...

http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpe...ull_Side_1.jpg

It sold for a considerable amount more than $250.00.

My point is that the OP's expectations might be unrealistic, unless good old fashion luck is involved, or unless he, or she, knows How To Hunt for Vintage Bicycles.

Listen to Thirfty Bill. There is no quick and dirty way when picking ideal vintage bikes. There's just too much variation.

Here's my attempt at answering your questions though. Take it with a boulder of salt. Keep in mind some of these bikes can be considered classics but could have no collector value.

1. Centurion Ironman if performance means fast and stable.

2. Peugeot UO-8 (I'm guessing fatter tires would fit). Low end but very comfortable bike.

3. Bridgestone XO. Just throwing this out there but I've head some good things about this bike. I feel that any "sport touring" model would fit the bill. Univega is a good choice.

4. Specialized Stumpjumper. In my opinion this would be the most cost effective route. You can get very good mountain bikes for cheap. A GT, Scott, Schwinn High Sierra, etc. are also possible.

5. A Miyata or Univega would be nice. I think they came out with some hybrid type frames with road geometry and cantilever brakes.

Depending on location $250 is a good amount to get a decent bike. But just one. If you have the time, you can pick up some very nice ones for a bargain. All the bikes I own have cost $200 or less and I got them in an overpriced market.

I agree with most of what bill and Veloh added - I'd look for some of the miyatas, treks, univegas, Japanese schwinns, panasonics and lotus (which I'm particularly fond of).

As Veloh said - a good route would be a rigid steel mtb fitted with racks and slick tires.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...hSCfrtisoa.jpg


Here are my suggestions;

1. Vintage road bikes that felt high performance even at a modest price -
Buy an old Super Course and put some really good tires on it.

2. Vintage road bikes that accepted a fatter tire (32c-37c fat)
Buy an old Super Course and put fat tires on it.

3. Most versatile vintage bikes - Is there a "Surly Cross Check" for vintage bikes? ..
Buy an old Super Course and put Cyclocross tires on it.

4. Vintage mountain bikes - I'm not concerned about this category because, very broadly speaking, mountain bikes kind of perform w/ similar characteristics when fitted with slicks and turned into commuters.
Buy an old Super Course and put some City tires, lights and racks on it.

5. Vintage hybrid bikes - I don't believe any of these actually exist, because as far as I know, "hybrid" frame bikes, by the most common definition, are really a modern invention...
Buy an old Super Course, and put some Northroad bars on it.

Note that my suggestions above are partly tongue-in-cheek: While it's true that you can do almost anything with an old Supercourse, it might not be the right bike for you. Your bike just might be one of the millions of other C&V bikes gathering dust in people's garages: English bikes, Japanese Bikes. Italian bikes. American bikes. French bikes... Heck, probably even ancient Egyptian bikes! :eek:

The trick is to educate educate educate yourself, so that you can recognize a great deal and snag it - choosing the one that best fits you, your pocketbook, and your lifestyle. - Then the only problem you may have (like so many of us) is that you might not be able to stop at just one. :)

Anything blue is classic.

Duh.

Lol. You guys are amazing really. Awesome answers.

I could get inspiration from this thread for weeks, maybe months.

Sorry I can't respond to every reply, but truly, thank you all. As we say in the South - PRECIATE IT! :D

Oh, and carbon is not classic....well not untill 2021 anyway

OP, you made a comment about why waste time learning about Dura Ace, when all you can afford is 105.....

Well, you want to learn about ALL the components at ALL levels, so that when you happen to find yourself staring at a garage sale bike, you know what you have and if it is worthwhile or not.

Case in point....I'm a certified Campyholic....I don't care a whit for Japanese bikes, but I have learned about them enough to know that when I was looking at really nice Miyata Pro, equipped with a really nice high end group set, and the asking price was $125, I didn't hesitate. Since they are not my thing, I flipped it for quite a bit more and put that money into my bike fund ! .......Just sayin' .......


Joe

It'll probably be dust by that time... how classic is that?

+1 for vintage lugged steel Treks. Volpes are very nice as well, but are harder to find and might be a bit more $.

+1 The more you know, the easier it becomes to POUNCE when you see a deal. While others are pondering, I am loading the bike up into my car. I am always amazed how potential buyers (the competition) will study every nook and cranny of a bike, read every label, etc., then wander around the store to "think about it". Or they will wait until it is convenient (say the weekend or whatever), expecting some smokin hot deal on C/L to last several days..... If/when you see a deal, find a way to get there, NOW.

FWIW, I have found a Dura Ace bike within your price range, this year, oh you bet, I bought it. And it sat on C/L for a couple of weeks. Awful ad + poor pics and lousy description + buyers with no imagination = deal. Sellers who lay out every detail, with great pics, and all the information you would ever need, either ask full market price, or the bike is gone in a nanosecond.

Also expect any used bike, particularly a vintage bike, to need work. If you are unwilling/unable to do the work yourself, you could spend your total budget just getting the bike road ready. Find a nearby co-op, and they can assist you with tools, knowledge and parts to get you going.

I just recieved this 1986 Centurion LeMans RS for 250.00 plus shipping. It did have a couple scratches on it though, lol. Amazing bike IMHO, bought it for my Son's girlfriend.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=286940
Cheers,

Depends on your definition of classic. Sure, $250 won't (usually) get you a Colnago or De Rosa, but if you are patient and informed, it will eventually get you a nice vintage bike.

I have bought a Peugeot PSVN, a Peugeot PX10, a Cannondale R1000/Mavic, a Motobecane Grand Record/Shimano Arabesque, etc. each for under your $250 goal. I live in an expensive city (as in, bikes are priced high here), don't go to thrift shops/garage sales, and am not the most disciplined of buyers. I'd never survive as a bike flipper, I wager I am one of the worst at finding deals. Yet there are some decent bikes in my garage for the cost of a new Surly Cross Check. Admittedly, some of these bikes also needed work but they were all complete and some were just grease, cables, and maybe a pair of tires away from being perfectly good riders.

Just read and read, here and on Sheldon Brown's fantastic site and on randyjawa's site. It may take awhile to figure out what you want. Know what? The figuring out is the fun part!

Know your components, sometimes even something like a saddle has enough value to justify the price. Looking through that lens, the rest of the bike is "free". If I don't know the bike off the top of my head (this is true like 95% of the time), I make a decision to buy based on components. Learn at least a rough framework of the hierarchies of shimano and suntour, and get a sense of what makes "nice" components nice. Things like finish on the parts, alloy vs steel parts, even feel and quality of an unknown part can offer some idea of the value of the bike.

Honestly I've never put much into the brand or the specifics of a given bike, craigslist scouring dictates a quick hand that works largely on educated guesses. But by knowing what to look for, and picking up on cues to value, I can resolve all the specifics at home, once I've bought the bike.

FWIW, I got each of these bikes in the last year for less than your $250 target.

http://i.imgur.com/uzB91t.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ZSGEit.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3ttnUt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LGHVlt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/C9VMlt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yoIT4t.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Ve3xft.jpg http://i.imgur.com/y04Aut.jpg http://i.imgur.com/7hRrRt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/MOdv1t.jpg

... and if you doubled your budget, every bike in the gallery in my sig would comply.