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Motobecane Team Champion - A Work in Progress

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Motobecane Team Champion - A Work in Progress

Old 12-14-12, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris
Thanks. Actually the fork tips are chromed.

Brent
Oh yeah. Actually, Brent, I meant on the earlier version, half the fork blade was chromed. That fork crown still baffles me though. Never seen one like before. On any high end Moto from that era that I've seen pictures of.
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Old 12-16-12, 09:48 PM
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Bike With Character - Part 3, Old School Inflator

Look carefully at this picture. Look at that funny little bit of tarnished brass threaded onto the front derailleur mounting bolt.



When this bike was made presta valves were a rarity in the U.S. Even many bike shops didn't have a pump to inflate them. Aside from the Silca Track Pump there wasn't much in the way of floor pumps for presta valves. Many of us relied on our Silca frame pump to inflate our tires. That was a lot of work and we usually gave up before the correct pressure was achieved. But that was also the time when air was free at the gas station, and the compressors were big rumbling things with 3 horsepower motors and 40-gallon air tanks, not the wheezing, rattling little things that we feed quarters into now. The air compressors served two purposes. They inflated tires, but they also ran the mechanic's air tools. The air tools were designed to run best on about 100 psi: Coincidentally so were our sew-up tires. So the regulators on the compressors were usually set for about 100 psi.

With that little brass schrader to presta adapter you could inflate a tire in no time. You could also blow the tire on a balloon tire bike to smithereens in about two seconds with a gas station compressor since those tires were only designed to take about 35 pounds of pressure.

Yep, I'll polish up that little piece of brass and mount it back in its place of honor for pure nostalgia value.

Brent
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Old 12-17-12, 06:05 AM
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I used to carry mine mounted on the shifter bolt, Brent. Didn't like it mounted so close to the rear wheel. And yes, thoughts of trying to get 110 into a Clement del Mundo with a Silca only brings back fond memories. But I had a lot more Gorilla Milk in me back then.
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Old 12-17-12, 06:07 AM
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Oh, and, ditch that Huret cable guide. That bike deserves a Campagnolo one.
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Old 12-17-12, 06:49 AM
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a beauty. but once you paint it, you can't unpaint it. so don't paint it!
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Old 12-17-12, 07:49 AM
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Now I want to have my Nuovo Record crank arms anodized black.
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Old 12-20-12, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd
Now I want to have my Nuovo Record crank arms anodized black.
You're a true rebel, Colonel.
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Old 12-20-12, 09:46 AM
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Very nice bike. I think these bikes had a very steep head angle. Does anyone have the software/know-how to measure the angle with a photo?
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Old 12-27-12, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider
Very nice bike. I think these bikes had a very steep head angle. Does anyone have the software/know-how to measure the angle with a photo?
Good observation!
I just measured mine:
Head angle 75.2
Seat angle 73.1

Anyone else measure theirs?
Brent
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Old 12-28-12, 09:22 AM
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What tool did you use Brent? I've never measured mine, but will.
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Old 12-28-12, 11:10 AM
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Stabila digital electronic level - very nice tool!
https://www.toolking.com/stabila-3651...FUjZQgod8gcA4A
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Old 12-28-12, 01:01 PM
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i've seen those jerseys sell for about 300-900 depending on what condition they're in and how hot the market is.

You could probably sell that saddle to help cover some repainting/rechroming costs. But since that's you're grail bike i would keep that saddle if i were you, the rarity and obscurity is pretty awesome.
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Old 12-28-12, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris
Stabila digital electronic level - very nice tool!
https://www.toolking.com/stabila-3651...FUjZQgod8gcA4A
Brent
Very nice tool indeed. I'm a real tool nut but that one is probably beyond my level of need. Guess I'll have to go the old fashioned method and use my Starrett protractor.
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Old 12-29-12, 09:54 PM
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Bike with Character Part 4 - Paint it Black

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd
Now I want to have my Nuovo Record crank arms anodized black.
Yes, a previous owner of this bike had a vision for it. Maybe Halloween was his favorite holiday. Maybe he was a San Francisco Giants fan. But he sure liked orange and black.





After all these years the black was getting pretty ragged.







The black Phil Wood hubs will be replaced with Campy Records and the Dia Compe hoods will be replaced with Campy gum hoods. The chainrings have already been replaced with used Campy Record rings. But something had to be done about the black anodizing on the seatpost, stem and crank arms. This was my first time trying to remove an anodized finish with oven cleaner as outlined in other threads in this forum. I was surprised how easy it was:
Spray on the oven cleaner. Let it sit for 4 or 5 minutes and remove with a brass bristle brush under running water. I made the mistake of leaving the oven cleaner on the seatpost and stem for about 10 minutes. The stem rinsed off nice and shiny but the seatpost turned a different shade of black, evidently a reaction between the oven cleaner and something in the Campagnolo alloy. Fortunately some scrubbing with the brass brush took the black right off.

A little polishing and everything looks pretty nice now.



I'm contemplating painting the flutes on the crank spider black in honor of the long-ago previous owner.

Brent
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Old 12-30-12, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider
Very nice bike. I think these bikes had a very steep head angle. Does anyone have the software/know-how to measure the angle with a photo?
yup.

The seat tube angle is 72.5 and the head tube angle is 74.5 degrees from the angle of the top tube and may be the floor.

Nice bike man. I am glad to see you like it as much as we do.

Does your bike have a 59cm top tube?

I wonder how close I am..



moto2 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr

Last edited by ftwelder; 12-30-12 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 12-30-12, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris
Maybe Halloween was his favorite holiday. But he sure liked orange and black.
Brent
Me too Brent. I always referred to mine as my "Halloween bike."
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Old 12-30-12, 02:39 PM
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OK Frank. Or Brent. I've got tons of tools. But I don't have a fancy digital level or inclinometer. Is there an accurate way to measure frame angles with hand tools?
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Old 12-30-12, 02:41 PM
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Oh and...very interesting to see that seat post. Looks like very little of it was inserted into the seat tube. Had it been shortened?

Very nice saddle!
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Old 12-30-12, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rootboy
OK Frank. Or Brent. I've got tons of tools. But I don't have a fancy digital level or inclinometer. Is there an accurate way to measure frame angles with hand tools?
You have the protractor thing that came with your combo square. I use something like piece of I beam because my floor is 200 years old and pretty junky. I level that up and use a couple of those plastic spring clamps to hold the bike up straight (vertical) with a yard stick or something then use a small V-block on the front of the tube to set the protractor on. I will pre-set the device at a likely angle and just use the bubble to see how close I am then change the adjustment till the bubble centers. It's easier that trying to rotate the thingy and watch the bubble.

You can also directly measure the angle of the top tube to seat or head tube relation like I did on that photo. I would start with a bevel square and transfer the angle to the protractor.
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Old 12-30-12, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ftwelder

Does your bike have a 59cm top tube?

I wonder how close I am..

Seat tube is 63cm C-T
Top tube is 60.5cm C-C

Brent
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Old 12-30-12, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rootboy
Oh and...very interesting to see that seat post. Looks like very little of it was inserted into the seat tube. Had it been shortened?
Yes, the seat post was definitely "lightened" by a previous owner... Too short for me! But it's too small in more than one way: It's 26.0 and very loose in the seat tube. The seat clamp was pretty seriously crimped to accommodate it. Everything I've read says that these bikes should have a 26.4 seat post but there is no way a 26.4 will fit in this frame, in fact a 26.2 is very tight even after using a bead hone to remove the accumulated rust and debris. Has anyone heard of a 26.2 seatpost on these bikes before?
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Old 12-30-12, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris
Yes, a previous owner of this bike had a vision for it.

I'm contemplating painting the flutes on the crank spider black in honor of the long-ago previous owner.

Brent
A glimpse of what the flutes look like filled-in w/ black. This crank came to me already painted, so I left it that way. I did replace the NR ring w/ a SR.



Nice Moto...!

My '74 Grand Record has a 26.2 seatpost. Your black hub does resemble a sets of American Classic Hubs I have on my Mondia. Does the sleeve on the axle come right off? They did come new w/ a couple of sized sleeves for different dropout spacing widths.

Last edited by 1 Lugnut; 12-30-12 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 12-30-12, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris
Yes, the seat post was definitely "lightened" by a previous owner... Too short for me! But it's too small in more than one way: It's 26.0 and very loose in the seat tube. The seat clamp was pretty seriously crimped to accommodate it. Everything I've read says that these bikes should have a 26.4 seat post but there is no way a 26.4 will fit in this frame, in fact a 26.2 is very tight even after using a bead hone to remove the accumulated rust and debris. Has anyone heard of a 26.2 seatpost on these bikes before?
Brent
My Le Champ has a 26.4 (ostensibly the same frame), but if a 26.2 post is what fits your seat tube, I would just go with it.
(I would go with the black fill on the fluting too, as Lugnut illustrates!)
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Old 12-31-12, 10:40 AM
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And, my circa '75 Le Champion came with a 26.6 seat post in it. It was a Simplex, so not original, but I bought an old Record 26.6 and it fit perfectly. Which kind of surprised me because the post on my Champion Team, which I know is original to the bike, is a 26.4. I'm thinking the reason a 26.4 doesn't fit Brent is because the top of the seat lug, and ears, have been squeezed by tightening down the bolt with a too-small post in there. Not an easy fix, but it can be done. If it were me I think I'd try to find a bike shop with one of those seat tube measuring things, and see if you can convince them to gently "open up" the top of the seat lug with it. Tap on it a bit to enlarge the opening back to original.

I suppose it's possible a 26.2 was original equipment. But the only way to tell would be to measure the inside diameter of the seat tube about 3 inches down inside the tube. A machinist with a hole gauge could do that. I might have one. Lemme check.
S.

Edit: As a matter of fact, I do have a Starrett hole gauge that will fit this application Brent, but an easier way might be to use a machinist's spring joint inside caliper. I could send you one of those if it'll help. Thinking it over, one of those LBS go-no-go seat tube things might work but be kind of tricky as they're tapered. How much to open up the "hole"? Until the tool stops I guess. BTW, just checked my Sutherlands, just to be sure, fourth edition. It states: "French- quality tubing-plain gauge= 26.2. French- double butted tubing=26.4 + 26.6. I suspect 26.4 is correct for your bike and it may just be a matter of opening up the top of the seat lug a bit. And then of course, there are the exceptions, like Lugnut's '74 Grand Record!

Last edited by rootboy; 12-31-12 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 12-31-12, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ftwelder
You have the protractor thing that came with your combo square. I use something like piece of I beam because my floor is 200 years old and pretty junky. I level that up and use a couple of those plastic spring clamps to hold the bike up straight (vertical) with a yard stick or something then use a small V-block on the front of the tube to set the protractor on. I will pre-set the device at a likely angle and just use the bubble to see how close I am then change the adjustment till the bubble centers. It's easier that trying to rotate the thingy and watch the bubble.

You can also directly measure the angle of the top tube to seat or head tube relation like I did on that photo. I would start with a bevel square and transfer the angle to the protractor.
Leave it to a guy who really knows these tools to clarify. Thanks Frank! The V-block was my missing link. Also, the bike is fully assembled so I had to try it with the top tube in the horizontal position. My main question is these "tenths" you guys are coming up with. I can't see that on what I'm using. What I did Frank, so far, was place the protractor head on my head tube ...barely fit between the top and bottom headset parts, and then level up my Starrett 24 inch rule mounted in the protractor head, to the top tube. Close as I can determine, my Champion Team has a head tube angle of 74 degrees, and a seat tube of 73.5. Give or take. Going to check the Le Champion next to see if these really are identical frames.
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