Motobecane Team Champion - A Work in Progress
12-31-12, 07:03 PM
#51
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Leave it to a guy who really knows these tools to clarify. Thanks Frank! The V-block was my missing link. Also, the bike is fully assembled so I had to try it with the top tube in the horizontal position. My main question is these "tenths" you guys are coming up with. I can't see that on what I'm using. What I did Frank, so far, was place the protractor head on my head tube ...barely fit between the top and bottom headset parts, and then level up my Starrett 24 inch rule mounted in the protractor head, to the top tube. Close as I can determine, my Champion Team has a head tube angle of 74 degrees, and a seat tube of 73.5. Give or take. Going to check the Le Champion next to see if these really are identical frames.
I have a device I call a "goniometer" (I forgot how it got that name) that is a giant, simple protractor. I use that and the cad program to reverse engineer critical angles. I had one of those electronic devices and got tired of endless failures. It was a different brand.
I need to get my moto sorted. I have a team champion you know..
Last edited by ftwelder; 12-31-12 at 07:26 PM.
12-31-12, 08:10 PM
#52
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Leave it to a guy who really knows these tools to clarify. Thanks Frank! The V-block was my missing link. Also, the bike is fully assembled so I had to try it with the top tube in the horizontal position. My main question is these "tenths" you guys are coming up with. I can't see that on what I'm using. What I did Frank, so far, was place the protractor head on my head tube ...barely fit between the top and bottom headset parts, and then level up my Starrett 24 inch rule mounted in the protractor head, to the top tube. Close as I can determine, my Champion Team has a head tube angle of 74 degrees, and a seat tube of 73.5. Give or take. Going to check the Le Champion next to see if these really are identical frames.
Brent
Last edited by obrentharris; 12-31-12 at 08:11 PM. Reason: correct misspelling.
really? I wasn't aware of that I don't think. Have we seen it here?
01-01-13, 08:14 AM
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Yes, the seat lug was definitely pinched when I received the bike. I have now opened it and checked it for round with one of those step-tapered seat-tube sizing mandrels. At this point the 26.2 post slides in nicely until it gets close to the bottom of the slot in the seat tube. At that point it becomes quite tight, so tight that I am going to ream it a little to allow the post to fit without forcing. The inside of the seat tube is now honed to shiny metal so rust, dirt and old grease are not an issue. Perhaps, in spite of the Reynolds label, Motobecane used a straight gauge tube for this size bike.
Brent
Brent
No, I haven't put up any photos. It needs some brazing and likely paint. Ill get some pics and perhaps you guys can help me figure it out. I am not very sure of it's ID. Ill measure also.
Last edited by ftwelder; 01-01-13 at 08:24 AM.
04-29-13, 09:39 PM
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Bike With Character Part 5 - Rust and Corrosion
Sorry for the long pause in this build thread. Finding all the correct bits has taken some time. I expect to take it for the first test ride very soon.
Santa Cruz, where this bicycle spent most of its life, is a Central California beach town with a notorious salty summer fog. I'm afraid all the salt air took its toll on this bike over the years.
The Fork Crown
Under the cloth tape the handlebars were corroded through in a couple of spots, no saving these I'm afraid.
Rust "Worms" under the paint
After stripping, wire brushing, and sanding to shiny steel I treated the frame with "Prep & Ready Rust Remover, Pre-Primer" a zinc phosphate product recommended by my local auto body paint store.
Pictures of the finished bike forthcoming in the next couple of days.
Brent
Santa Cruz, where this bicycle spent most of its life, is a Central California beach town with a notorious salty summer fog. I'm afraid all the salt air took its toll on this bike over the years.
The Fork Crown
Under the cloth tape the handlebars were corroded through in a couple of spots, no saving these I'm afraid.
Rust "Worms" under the paint
After stripping, wire brushing, and sanding to shiny steel I treated the frame with "Prep & Ready Rust Remover, Pre-Primer" a zinc phosphate product recommended by my local auto body paint store.
Pictures of the finished bike forthcoming in the next couple of days.
Brent
04-29-13, 09:58 PM
#57
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I just hope it's going to be orange. 
__________________
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.
- Dr Samuel Johnson
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.
- Dr Samuel Johnson
04-30-13, 03:02 AM
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^+1. Those rust spider pics are great.
I'm dealing with a similar case. I'm curious, did you find any indentations left after you sanded the spiders away? I do have some slight indentations on my project frame left after sanding the rust spiders. The indentations are slight enough that I'm wondering if perhaps the primer will fill the gaps. I'm curious about your experience, and, if the frame had indentations from the rust spiders, how you went about treating it before painting (which I haven't yet done).
Great project, btw. Following with interest.
I'm dealing with a similar case. I'm curious, did you find any indentations left after you sanded the spiders away? I do have some slight indentations on my project frame left after sanding the rust spiders. The indentations are slight enough that I'm wondering if perhaps the primer will fill the gaps. I'm curious about your experience, and, if the frame had indentations from the rust spiders, how you went about treating it before painting (which I haven't yet done).
Great project, btw. Following with interest.
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-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer '72 Peugeot PX10 '73 Speedwell Ti '74 Nishiki Competition '74 Peugeot UE-8 '86 Look Equipe 753 '86 Look KG86 '89 Parkpre Team Road '90 Parkpre Team MTB '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer '72 Peugeot PX10 '73 Speedwell Ti '74 Nishiki Competition '74 Peugeot UE-8 '86 Look Equipe 753 '86 Look KG86 '89 Parkpre Team Road '90 Parkpre Team MTB '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
04-30-13, 06:03 PM
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Finished at Last
Here she is in all her glory.
I had a beautiful Campy umbrella clip pump holder so no frame-fit pump for this one.
I found a nice set of Cinelli bars to replace the corroded ones.
Yes the handlebar tape is already showing some dirt. I took it on its maiden voyage today, twenty-something miles with a bakery in the middle! I had some trepidation about the 75 degree head angle but it handled like a dream. Someone definitely got the geometry right on this one. Nimble enough to dodge the fallen branches on the bike path, stable enough to descend with conviction. What a joy!
The chrome shop did an excellent job on the forks and multitude of small parts.
Regarding the paint; yes there were some areas with rust pitting. After treating with the zinc phosphate I primed with "Duplicolor Professional Filler Primer" available in a spray can. A couple coats of the primer and a light sanding afterwards was enough to eliminate the pits. I tried to be careful with the primer, using only enough to do the job. I didn't want to blur the crisp lug lines with overly thick paint.
The color coat is "nason Ful-Base 3.5 B/C" in the Atlas Orange color. The local auto body paint shop was able to put this in spray cans for me.
The clear coat is "U-POL Clear #1 UV Resistant Clear Coat." This is only the second bike I have painted with automotive paint: My lack of experience shows in a couple of clear coat mistakes. I think I applied it at too low of a temperature (66 degrees f) so it would run just at the moment that it developed a good sheen. Some careful wet sanding eliminated the worst of the blemishes. I'm seriously considering buying an airbrush before doing another one. I understand that one of the advantages of shooting with an airbrush is that you can choose how much thinner to add depending on the temperature. I believe you also have considerably more control over spray pattern and degree of atomization of the paint. Nevertheless I'm pretty happy with the results. My friend who gave me the bike, after seeing the final results, says he's very happy he gave it to me. That's a nice feeling.
Brent
I had a beautiful Campy umbrella clip pump holder so no frame-fit pump for this one.
I found a nice set of Cinelli bars to replace the corroded ones.
Yes the handlebar tape is already showing some dirt. I took it on its maiden voyage today, twenty-something miles with a bakery in the middle! I had some trepidation about the 75 degree head angle but it handled like a dream. Someone definitely got the geometry right on this one. Nimble enough to dodge the fallen branches on the bike path, stable enough to descend with conviction. What a joy!
The chrome shop did an excellent job on the forks and multitude of small parts.
Regarding the paint; yes there were some areas with rust pitting. After treating with the zinc phosphate I primed with "Duplicolor Professional Filler Primer" available in a spray can. A couple coats of the primer and a light sanding afterwards was enough to eliminate the pits. I tried to be careful with the primer, using only enough to do the job. I didn't want to blur the crisp lug lines with overly thick paint.
The color coat is "nason Ful-Base 3.5 B/C" in the Atlas Orange color. The local auto body paint shop was able to put this in spray cans for me.
The clear coat is "U-POL Clear #1 UV Resistant Clear Coat." This is only the second bike I have painted with automotive paint: My lack of experience shows in a couple of clear coat mistakes. I think I applied it at too low of a temperature (66 degrees f) so it would run just at the moment that it developed a good sheen. Some careful wet sanding eliminated the worst of the blemishes. I'm seriously considering buying an airbrush before doing another one. I understand that one of the advantages of shooting with an airbrush is that you can choose how much thinner to add depending on the temperature. I believe you also have considerably more control over spray pattern and degree of atomization of the paint. Nevertheless I'm pretty happy with the results. My friend who gave me the bike, after seeing the final results, says he's very happy he gave it to me. That's a nice feeling.
Brent
04-30-13, 07:27 PM
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what was your process in the perfect black paint applied atop the seat stays?
04-30-13, 08:18 PM
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Wow wow wow.
__________________
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.
- Dr Samuel Johnson
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.
- Dr Samuel Johnson
04-30-13, 09:39 PM
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Excellent job.
05-01-13, 12:19 AM
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I'll join in the applause. Fantastic work!
__________________
-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer '72 Peugeot PX10 '73 Speedwell Ti '74 Nishiki Competition '74 Peugeot UE-8 '86 Look Equipe 753 '86 Look KG86 '89 Parkpre Team Road '90 Parkpre Team MTB '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer '72 Peugeot PX10 '73 Speedwell Ti '74 Nishiki Competition '74 Peugeot UE-8 '86 Look Equipe 753 '86 Look KG86 '89 Parkpre Team Road '90 Parkpre Team MTB '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
05-01-13, 12:24 AM
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Great restoration, wonderful attention to detail. Fantastic job.
05-01-13, 05:46 AM
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"I understand that one of the advantages of shooting with an airbrush is that you can choose how much thinner to add depending on the temperature. I believe you also have considerably more control over spray pattern and degree of atomization of the paint. "
Not so much the amount of thinner in different temperatures, in my experience, but definitely yes to having much more control over the paint.
An auto detail gun is an option too. Most airbrushes are kind of small for painting a frame.
You did a fantastic job on this Brent.
Not so much the amount of thinner in different temperatures, in my experience, but definitely yes to having much more control over the paint.
An auto detail gun is an option too. Most airbrushes are kind of small for painting a frame.
You did a fantastic job on this Brent.
05-01-13, 08:03 AM
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Stunning work.
It's been a long time since I messed around with shooting cars, but I seem to recall you could purchase different accelerators or ******ers to add, depending on weather conditions.
I do agree an airbrush seems a little small for the work.
Kurt
It's been a long time since I messed around with shooting cars, but I seem to recall you could purchase different accelerators or ******ers to add, depending on weather conditions.
I do agree an airbrush seems a little small for the work.
Kurt
05-01-13, 09:28 AM
#75
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Thank you all for your kind words!
I've seen some of the great restorations that many of you have done so I am truly honored by your approval.
My process was like this. I'm not sure it is the best way but it worked for me.
Step1. Prime entire frame.
Step 2. Mask over stay caps and apply orange color coat.
Step 3. After color coat is dry to touch, remove masking tape to expose primer on stay caps.
Step 4. Mask around stay caps at edge of orange paint and apply black paint.
Step 5. Pinstripe with gold.
Step 6. Apply clear coat.
Brent
I've seen some of the great restorations that many of you have done so I am truly honored by your approval.
Step1. Prime entire frame.
Step 2. Mask over stay caps and apply orange color coat.
Step 3. After color coat is dry to touch, remove masking tape to expose primer on stay caps.
Step 4. Mask around stay caps at edge of orange paint and apply black paint.
Step 5. Pinstripe with gold.
Step 6. Apply clear coat.
Brent
