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Motobecane Team Champion - A Work in Progress

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Motobecane Team Champion - A Work in Progress

Old 12-11-12, 08:40 PM
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Motobecane Team Champion - A Work in Progress

This bike was given to me by an old friend, Paul Sadoff of Rock Lobster fame. Paul and I worked together in a Santa Cruz bike shop during the era when this bike was made. He acquired it a decade or so ago and it has been hanging on the wall in his shop ever since. Knowing how much I coveted this bike, he decided it was time to pass it along.







As you can see it needs some love. Santa Cruz, where it spent it's life, is a beach town: The salt air can rec havoc on steel and aluminum alike.





My plan is to strip it down, re-paint it, and return it to as near it's new condition as I can without spending outrageous money on New Old Stock parts.





Brent
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Old 12-11-12, 08:49 PM
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A Bike With Character - Part 1

I had never seen this Huret cable guide before. Pretty rusty but I think it will clean up ok. I'm hoping to re-chrome it as well as a lot more small parts.



I had also never seen all-black old Phil Wood hubs. I did find one picture on the internet of a pair with black anodized flanges but the hub body was chrome. I'm guessing that a previous owner may have painted the hub bodies himself.



Brent
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Old 12-11-12, 09:37 PM
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Brent - You have a diamond in the rough for sure, Many of us would kill to own a real team Champion ... Well, maybe not many of us, and maybe not actually "kill" - but maybe one or two of us cognoscenti would insult someone... I certainly would. You know what I mean.

You have a fantastic project there - But do get the black stuff off the stem, chain-wheel, and hubs. (It doesn't look like it needs much else.)

PS - Which one is Paul in the Rock Lobster video?
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Old 12-11-12, 09:51 PM
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+1 to the above.

I have a 1978 TC but there's no denying the earlier ones are cooler.

Does that hub say Phil on it? I have some black American Classic hubs that look very much like that.
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Old 12-11-12, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by due ruote
+1 to the above.
Yer mudder wears army boots!
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Old 12-12-12, 09:11 AM
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[QUOTE=obrentharris;15040462]I had never seen this Huret cable guide before. Pretty rusty but I think it will clean up ok. I'm hoping to re-chrome it as well as a lot more small parts.

I believe the huret cable guide is commonly used with the Jubilee derailleurs.
I do not think it should be painted,grease it,clean it,wax it,ride it.
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Old 12-12-12, 09:22 AM
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wew, alloy railed ideale saddle, relatively rare motobecane variant, interesting parts - good score!
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Old 12-12-12, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by auchencrow

You have a fantastic project there - But do get the black stuff off the stem, chain-wheel, and hubs. (It doesn't look like it needs much else.)
You and I think alike. I'll cover the removal of the black anodizing in another post.

PS - Which one is Paul in the Rock Lobster video?
This one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF_CCtA_7Z8

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Old 12-12-12, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by auchencrow
Yer mudder wears army boots!
? too obtuse for me. But I'll be grossly offended just in case.
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Old 12-12-12, 10:55 AM
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no way, get all the black parts re-anodized. way cool!
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Old 12-12-12, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by due ruote
? too obtuse for me. But I'll be grossly offended just in case.
No offense intended of course: I was just joking that your "+1" indicated your agreement that if you insulted someone, a TC would materialize. (I guess the inference was a bit obtuse.)
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Old 12-12-12, 11:36 AM
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Very nice. Now you can pretend to be Luis Ocana. Try not to crash descending in the rain, get Hep C or shoot yourself, though.

I used to have one of those Huret cable guides - it was the only one I could get to fit on a Bob Jackson (long since stolen ). I always thought it was an elegant design.

As for painting, based on the visible rust, the visible patches of no paint (especially under the front brake cable guide) and especially the bubbly stuff happening on the underside of the bottom bracket hanger, I'd say it is a candidate for a good respray, especially since it has lived, as you say, in a salt air neighborhood. May I also suggest trying to buff out the chrome on the fork crown to see if it is salvageable before painting.

Having said that, it is your bike. Do with it what will make you happy.
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Old 12-12-12, 01:05 PM
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that is one bee-utiful bike and a fun project to boot! I have one of those Huret cable guides (and IIRC it's in almost NOS condition)...I'd let it go "cheap" for use on such a worthy recipient, PM me.
I agree that the flange doesn't look "Phil Wood" to me, probably AmClassic or other.
What's the shop decal on the bottom of the seat tube say? "...TON, CA"?
My 2 cents: clean it and give it a full oxalic acid bath and see how much it comes back to life before you spring for any repaint. You might be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 12-12-12, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
Very nice. Now you can pretend to be Luis Ocana. Try not to crash descending in the rain, get Hep C or shoot yourself, though.
Thanks, but I think I'll resist the temptation, if only because I would have to wear one of those godawful Bic jerseys!


As for painting, based on the visible rust, the visible patches of no paint (especially under the front brake cable guide) and especially the bubbly stuff happening on the underside of the bottom bracket hanger, I'd say it is a candidate for a good respray, especially since it has lived, as you say, in a salt air neighborhood. May I also suggest trying to buff out the chrome on the fork crown to see if it is salvageable before painting.
The chrome is about 80% gone on one side of the fork crown. After blasting the fork I'll probably have to do a lot of sanding and polishing to get the pitting out of the crown to make it suitable for chroming again.

Brent
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Old 12-12-12, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
that is one bee-utiful bike and a fun project to boot! I have one of those Huret cable guides (and IIRC it's in almost NOS condition)...I'd let it go "cheap" for use on such a worthy recipient, PM me.
Thanks for the generous offer. I may take you up on it. For no really good reason except that I like the challenge I'm trying to return this bike to stock configuration. I'm trying to figure out whether the Huret guide is stock on this bike. All the pictures I have seen of other Team Champions show the Campy cable guide.

I agree that the flange doesn't look "Phil Wood" to me, probably AmClassic or other.
What's the shop decal on the bottom of the seat tube say? "...TON, CA"?
For now I'm sticking with the theory that they are first generation Phil Wood before the two rings around the hub bodies and before the flared hub bodies. The two front flanges and the off-side rear flange all have small lips on the inside of the flange just like the early Phil Wood hubs; and just like the early Phil Wood hubs the rear hub does not have that lip on the drive side. Maybe I'll find out more when I strip the paint off the hub bodies. There are rust bubble forming so I see no option but to strip the paint to remove the rust underneath.

The shop sticker is from Mountain Cyclery in Felton, CA, a 10 miles or so inland from Santa Cruz.
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Old 12-12-12, 10:47 PM
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Bike With Character - Part 2, The Ideale Solution

As Italuminium pointed out the saddle appears to be a very rare beast, an Ideale cutaway saddle with flat aluminum rails.






I could find only one other thread on C&V that mentioned this saddle. It discusses an ebay listing for one. Unfortunately the picture from the listing is no longer available.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...deale+cut+away

Perhaps even more unusual than the saddle is this adapter that allows the saddle to be mounted to a Campagnolo Record seatpost.



If anyone has any information about either the saddle or the adapter I'd love to hear it! I doubt that the saddle was original to the bike: the U.S. catalog for 1974 shows a Cinelli saddle.





Brent

Last edited by obrentharris; 12-16-12 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 12-12-12, 11:12 PM
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That saddle is indeed a rare bird. Not only does it have flat aluminum rails and side cutouts, but the angle of the rails is different that others I have seen. Note for comparison my Ideale 90 with flat rails:

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Old 12-12-12, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris

If anyone has any information about either the saddle or the adapter I'd love to hear it! I doubt that the saddle was original to the bike: the U.S. catalog for 1984 shows a Cinelli saddle.
Brent
Do you mean 1974? Your bike surely isn't an '80s model. The picture in the '74 catalog looks to me like a leather saddle, but I couldn't say what kind. For some reason the specs page doesn't include the Team, but the Le Champion came with a Brooks Pro.
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...m_Champion.jpg
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...4/11_specs.jpg
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Old 12-13-12, 12:40 AM
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I bet the saddle was a 'customer addition/upgrade' but there aren't many Team Champs from this year to compare specs seems like many of the US-bound models had Brooks as stock, not Ideale. I've seen the ergal (alloy) railed models that have both "toe-in" and "toe-out" rails where they bolt to the cantle...not sure what it means.
Here's a pic of one I sold that isn't cut-away (swallow style) but it has a close-trim to the rear and this one "toes-out" and is marked 9-0 on the rail:
and another I had with steel rails, AFAIK this cut-away was factory-done, but little documentation for these "swallow" Ideales:
I have never seen the likes of that Campy seatpost adapter for these fat alloy rails: that has to be an even rarer bird! The typical is the one gaucho777 shows: it only fits a straight post.
I also think the Huret cable guide might be a customer-added bit, but no reason not to use it if you like it.
Thanks for solving the shop decal question: I didn't know there ever was a bike shop in Felton, I sure never saw it.
Last: I have early Phil hubs with steel center barrels (yes, they rust), the flange on that doesn't look like yours, but it could be yours is a tick later or even earlier. The brand on those early Phil barrels was just a red ink screen print, not engraved, and once the rust started they vanished.
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Old 12-13-12, 07:48 AM
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Le cool machine Brent. Certainly adheres to a 74 time frame but there are some very interesting details too. Such as the black painted seat stay caps, which, to me, point to an earlier variant. And then there are the typical details like the block lettering on the down tube, lack of chromed fork ends, etc., that point to 74 or 75. The metal head badge is an interesting touch too. Most TCs I've seen have the foil badge/decal.

Is the lettering still present on the top tube? If so, does it say Team Champion? Or Champion Team? Not sure when they made the switch. Mine says Champion Team.

What is the date on the rear derailleur? Very nice old bike. If you do dunk it in oxalic acid bath, I would be very careful with the graphics. I've read they are silk screened on, not decals, and I've confirmed this by looking at mine with a 20X magnifier. Interesting Motobecane touch, those wacky French.

Don't forget to thoroughly de-rust inside the tubes when you have it apart, and preserve the inside with Frame Saver or Boeshield.

Following your progress on this cool bike with great interest.
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Old 12-13-12, 11:20 AM
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That's a dream bike for me! I love the Bic orange and the workmanship on the frame. And that Ideale saddle, oh-la-la! Please keep us up to date on your restoraton, sounds like you're doing it right.

Jim
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Old 12-13-12, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by due ruote
Do you mean 1974? Your bike surely isn't an '80s model.
Thanks for catching my error. I have edited the post.
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Old 12-13-12, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1

Thanks for solving the shop decal question: I didn't know there ever was a bike shop in Felton, I sure never saw it.
I think Mountain Cycles closed in the early 80s.
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Old 12-13-12, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rootboy
Le cool machine Brent. Certainly adheres to a 74 time frame but there are some very interesting details too. Such as the black painted seat stay caps, which, to me, point to an earlier variant. And then there are the typical details like the block lettering on the down tube, lack of chromed fork ends, etc., that point to 74 or 75. The metal head badge is an interesting touch too. Most TCs I've seen have the foil badge/decal.

Is the lettering still present on the top tube? If so, does it say Team Champion? Or Champion Team? Not sure when they made the switch. Mine says Champion Team.

What is the date on the rear derailleur? Very nice old bike. If you do dunk it in oxalic acid bath, I would be very careful with the graphics. I've read they are silk screened on, not decals, and I've confirmed this by looking at mine with a 20X magnifier. Interesting Motobecane touch, those wacky French.

Don't forget to thoroughly de-rust inside the tubes when you have it apart, and preserve the inside with Frame Saver or Boeshield.

Following your progress on this cool bike with great interest.
Thanks. Actually the fork tips are chromed. The lettering read "Champion Team" but was very faint and went away entirely when I wiped the dust and grime off the frame. This led me to also believe that the original lettering was silk-screened. I'm glad to have your confirmation.

My plan is to strip the frame entirely, re-chrome the fork, and re-paint. I'll continue to post progress pictures.
Brent
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Old 12-14-12, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris
Thanks, but I think I'll resist the temptation, if only because I would have to wear one of those godawful Bic jerseys!
Awww, I always liked the Bic jerseys . . . .


Originally Posted by obrentharris
The chrome is about 80% gone on one side of the fork crown. After blasting the fork I'll probably have to do a lot of sanding and polishing to get the pitting out of the crown to make it suitable for chroming again.

Brent
I can't say I'm surprised to hear that. When you get ready to explore painters and chromers, be sure to consider Ed Litton. He is in Pt. Richmond, so he should be no more than an hour or so away from you - maybe a lot less, depending on where in the Bay Area you are. Check him out on Classic Rendezvous. He's a good frame builder, good frame repairer, good frame painter, and all-around good guy. He has tons of experience and knows his stuff. He isn't the cheapest option, but he he is far from the most expensive - you will get good value for your money. And his shop is a blast to visit - it's a museum of wonderful, interesting stuff in need of a good curator.

He does not do chrome himself, but has someone he uses. Finding people to do chrome work in California is not easy and getting harder all the time. Sometimes that chromer has a bit of a heavy hand (enough to bury lettering on dropouts), but Ed will talk to you about that on your frame, it should not be a major issue.

You do need to take Ed's time estimates with a grain of salt, especially if he has to track down decals - he has a phenominal collection of them on site, but I have no clue what he has for Motobecanes and predicting how long it will take to get decals can be an imprecise science. But I have had several frames painted by him, including one where I also had a fork rechromed through him, and I recommend him whole-heartedly and without reservation.
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Last edited by bikingshearer; 12-14-12 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Because I can't spell for shizznit.
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