Blackberry

A couple of years ago, I was informed that I was a retro geek. This came as a surprise to me. I was on a big group ride, cycling along on my 1983 Trek lugged steel trek. I had bought it new, and it was my regular, trusted steed. The truth is up until that point, I simply rode a lot without considering equipment very much. I didn't read bike magazines and was not trying to make any kind of "statement." I guess I had seen clipless pedals, ergo/sti shifting, but never gave it much thought. On that ride I realized that I was among a miniscule percentage that was using down tube shifters.

Oddly enough, that "retro geek" comment intrigued me, and the person who made it sent me to Rivendell Sheldon Brown, etc. I ended up finding out that there is indeed a sizable community of people who enjoy older bikes, and I came to respect my older bike in a new way. (I also ended up buying a modern road bike--partly because I wanted to experience the changes I had missed out on over 20 years. I came to like both bikes)

Ok, so the question is at what point does a bike become retro or vintage? Ten years? Twenty? Pre-WWII? Or in our disposable society, are bikes considered out of date even sooner? I realize that there can be all kinds of answers to this question. Just curious what y'all think.

ofofhy

I usually apply the classic rock radio station methodology, which is about 10 years.

lotek 

I think 20 years about does it. Classic Rendezvous pics 1983 as their
cut off, last year for Super Record components.
I think 10 isn't quite in the classic/vintage group yet.
Blackberry, what model Trek do you have? I'm restoring (sort of) a
late 1983 Trek 770 (oct 83, decals from 84), also have 85 670.

Marty

alanbikehouston

There seem to be "watershed" moments in design where a machine becomes distinctly different than it was before. Although the patent offices around the world were busy registering "new" ideas, the "average" bike owned by American adults changed very little between around 1898 and around 1935. Then, the huge fat tires introduced by Schwinn introduced a new style of bike that dominated the American market between 1935 and 1965. The "fat tire" bikes were mostly for kids, as fewer adults rode bikes in that era.

Then, in the early '60's, the Schwinn Varsity and Continental intoduced American adults to "ten speed" bikes (although many adults preferred the cushy tired five speed versions, such as the Suburban). So, from 1965 to 1985, there was a "boom" of adults riding bikes that LOOKED like racing bikes and had five or ten speeds. Those bikes were steel framed and generally lacked any kind of indexing or "easy shift" mechanism. The moderately priced steel framed road bike got much better, and much lighter between 1965 and 1985. The 1985 Schwinn Super Sport is a "world away" from the 1965 Schwinn Varsity.

The next era began around 1986. The advent of aluminum frames and indexed shifting. This enabled companies to sell easy shifting entry level bikes that weighed about as much as the top of the line steel frame bikes of 1965. And, mountain bikes brought millions of people back into cycling. Then came more complicated indexing systems such as STI, 8 cogs, 9 cogs...titanium and carbon. Expensive "improvement" with no significant value to the average person riding for relaxation and enjoyment.

So, today, a lugged steel frame bike with 5, 6, or 7 cogs and NO indexing of the shifting is distinctly a machine from a very different era. The best bikes of 1980 to 1985 had light, strong, lugged steel frames, strong rear wheels (free of the ultra-dishing that weakens today's wheels) and shifting systems that allowed "mixing and matching" drive train components from a variety of companies, yet always worked smoothly and easily. These machines allowed owners to "upgrade" to new shifters for $30, without having to replace any other aspects of the drivetrain. The best bikes of that period are the modern "classic" road bikes...the best road bikes ever made for use by average folks of moderate means.

Of course, today, there are places such as Rivendell where you can still buy a lugged, steel framed bike with friction shifting and just eight cogs. Instant classics, enjoyable today, and collectable thirty years from now.

SoonerBent

I used to buy, sell, trade, etc. a lot of old cars. I think the definition of classic/vintage would carry over. With technology moving forward as fast as it does these days things don't seem to have to be as old as they used to be. They need to meet 3 criteria:

1. There isn't anything made anywhere near like it today.
2. It was high quality, desirable or unique when it was made which makes it....
3. Valuable to a collector or other buyer now.


SS

Blackberry

Hi Marty,

I have a Trek 700 "sport touring" bike. In many ways it reminds me of the Rivendell Rambouillet (https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/rambouillet.asp ). A good all around bike for everything except fast racing or fully loaded touring. It even came with braze-ons for a rear rack (but only one water bottle mount. Go figure). I've also got a 720 touring bike, which I've used for some fairly extensive touring. Do you have any snaps of your bikes?

By the way, just in case you haven't seen it, here's a site you might find interesting: https://www.vintage-trek.com/

Berodesign

When people start to look funny at you, and you have problem finding parts, then it is vintage

TheOtherGuy

It's the stuff that would've given me a woodie when I was fifteen, and first getting into quality road bikes... Couldn't afford much of it then.... That's about 30 years ago. The good stuff from my teens and earlier is "classic" to me.

John E

I like your definition, which fits everything I ride, but I would add toeclips to the list of distinctive retro features. Generous tyre and mudguard clearances and comfortable, resilient frames are other useful features of at least some classic road bikes. I have zero motivation to exchange any of my bikes for something "modern." I have the Bianchi for speed/fun, the Peugeots for practical transportation, and the Capo, whose ornate, perfectly-crafted lugwork makes everything else look pretty drab.

john999

Pre-1970, when the Taiwanese 10-speeds flooded the market.

mswantak

That happens to me, but it's because I'm ugly and forgetful.

N2NH

I'll take my vintage Atala Super Record anyday. Seems to be able to beat most riders except for a woman that is a great mountain bike rider. She just breezes by me.

Add a portable amateur radio to that camera and a bike - heaven.

Blackberry

Yeh, more and more that sounds like my personal life.

Raleighman

To me there is nothing more beautiful than a lugged steel frame with the head tube painted a different color from the rest of the bike. I have a 1971 Raleigh Professional, a 1980 Raleigh Competition GS, and a 1987 Raleigh Team Pro. I also have a mid 80's Cannondale. I get so many positive comments on the Raleighs from the folks I ride with. I built the Team Pro up with STI shifters. The frame set was new old stock. To me the STI shifters are like driving an automatic and the friction shifters are like a manual transmission. I love them both and they both have their place.

ß劧ėėŠ

I know in the world of collectibles (like cars, guitars, and comic books) :

a manufactured object becomes "Classic" at 25 years
(that's when appraisal values - and sometimes insurance rates jump a level)

and I think "Vintage" could describe something older, like 50 years...

I'm not too sure, but I think at 75 years, it becomes an "Antique"...

- and doesn't "Retro" mean a new object that mimics an older style/design?
(Like the Chrysler PT Cruiser, for example?)

I don't think an old bike could be Retro, but the rider could be...

-mastersemanticsdebater

giant99

[QUOTE=Raleighman]To me there is nothing more beautiful than a lugged steel frame with the head tube painted a different color from the rest of the bike. I have a 1971 Raleigh Professional, a 1980 Raleigh Competition GS, and a 1987 Raleigh Team Pro. I also have a mid 80's Cannondale. I get so many positive comments on the Raleighs from the folks I ride with. I built the Team Pro up with STI shifters. The frame set was new old stock. To me the STI shifters are like driving an automatic and the friction shifters are like a manual transmission. I love them both and they both have their place.


You wouldnt have a pic of your 87 would you. I was told the frame Im building is an 80s Raleigh Team Pro. Mine was black when I got it so far its bare metal about ready for paint. thanks 99

Raleighman

I do but do not know how to post pictures. Mine is a pearl white with a blue head tube and fork. This are also blue, red, and yellow stripes on the chain stays and the seat tube. I can email you some pictures if you like.

John E

Why, thank you. (I had CyclArt paint my Capo red, with a white head tube, following the Austrian flag and an original-finish 1960 Capo I had seen on the Internet.)

TheOtherGuy

Same here...

Blackberry

Bellisimo! Beautiful!

toomanybikes

By and LArge, anything which pre-dates the mid-80's period, possibly as late as 1990.

After that everything pretty much was indexed shifting, Aluminum or other alternate materials, 8 speed or greater, etc.

The bikes of earlier than date tended to be good quality, lightweight steel lugged frames ( this of course is the high end bikes of the period) and good quality componenets with dt shifters, all this stuff still works great 25 years on.

In the case of my 1971 Claud Butler, this stuff all works great 36 years on!

RTapz

I though I might add that the patents on things plays a big part in what is a vintage.
Classic represented things that were in high demand by consumers and become collector items when they are no longer made.

U.S. Patents filed after June 8, 1995 expire 20 years from the date of filing.
U.S. Patents filed prior to June 8, 1995 expire 17 years from the date of issue, or 20 years from the first non-provisional patent application in the family - whichever is later.

mapleleafs-13 

Velognome 

Zombie!? This thread is 9 years old, according to ofofhy , it's just 1 year of shy of being vintage!

Rocky Gravol

Vintage implies it had some value when new.

Otherwise it's just old.