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New stuff is ugly, new stuff is pretty.

Old 12-22-12, 10:17 PM
  #1  
Branimir
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New stuff is ugly, new stuff is pretty.

I like new stuff. New frames, new technologies, but it seems like somebody at Shimano and Campagnolo noticed that the name sells, fired their designers, since it's not even important anymore to look good, when it's overpriced in the start due to the brand name

Shimano STI's always looked to me like a Star Trek phaser gone wrong, but with new 2300, Sora and Tiagra lines, they outdone themselves in the design department:

Cog marker? SERIOUSLY?!?!?

How about the new Ergopower?

Fonts and the funky shape of the hood? Maybe it's an ergonomical thing?


On the brighter side:
http://www.focus-bikes.com/int/en/bi...-20-g30-g.html

This bike looks stunning, impressive choice of colors and even the male reproductive organ head like shaped shifter top - fit this bike.

Btw I dig the SRAM stuff:

Also Star Trek-ish, in a TOS kind of way, but it has a certain note of...futurism to it - nice!

Or:

21st century style!


Care to share your favorites for these days bikes?
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Old 12-22-12, 10:28 PM
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My own taste runs to functionality. I admire the complete absence of style, especially if it adds nothing to the ability of an item to do its intended job.
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Old 12-23-12, 12:39 AM
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silver over black... non flashy and not techy frilly either
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Old 12-23-12, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Branimir View Post
New stuff is ugly, new stuff is pretty.
I can abide by half of what you said. Guess which half?

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. -This is the C&V forum you know!)
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Old 12-23-12, 01:47 AM
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I like the skeletonized brakes from Campy particularly, I think they are very graceful. I very much dislike the looks of the modern derailleurs and cranksets.
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Old 12-23-12, 02:05 AM
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Ugly:



I dunno. I thought 6600/7800 cranks were ugly when they came out too. Maybe it will grow on me, but right now I doubt it. Bikes are busy enough these days without multiple shades of grey on the group.

Pretty:



I know it's an open mold carbon frameset. I don't care. It's pretty. Companies that do their own r&d and layup should have bikes that look half this good.
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Old 12-23-12, 03:31 AM
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I really like most of the New School stuff. In fact, I just stripped off all of the Campy SR components from my Cyclops, and installed Shimano 105 ten speed grouppo. Now my Cyclops will be a wonderful riding bicycle and the components will be far more "user friendly", in my opinion. Can't wait for the snow/cold to go away so that I can ride the Cyclops.

And, I always liked the look, ride quality and "user friendly" features incorporated into my 2000 Marinoni Squadra...

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Old 12-23-12, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner View Post
My own taste runs to functionality. I admire the complete absence of style, especially if it adds nothing to the ability of an item to do its intended job.
Agreed in general, function over form; less is more. However, when form brings elegance, we have rolling art. My wife's new Paramount operates wonderfully but I really wonder if Shimano couldn't have put some effort into the Ultegra shifter's looks, which I find bulky and graceless. I'd rather the SRAM crankset be clear anodized vs. black. The use of different colors and textures can mask a truly wonderful form. Like I tell my wife, don't use much makeup because you don't need it, you are gorgeous as you are.

And threadless stems are just horrible to look at.
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Old 12-23-12, 04:48 AM
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I could care less about "new" stuff ! (in case you did,nt realise, this is C+V).
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Old 12-23-12, 04:53 AM
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Old 12-23-12, 05:29 AM
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This thread is about ugly/not ugly, so....IMO:

Shimano should have stopped at the 9-sp Ultegra crankset. I'm not much on cranksets that look like stacked plates.

Older Ergos are OK, because they look like older brake levers. All STI's and the newer Ergos look like the baby in Aliens.

There is an elegance to C&V bikes with slender metal tubing, quill stems, DT shifters, but there is something clean about the look of aero brake routing.

Despite what I like, I tend to build and ride what is most convenient for myself and anyone who would ride my bikes. I'd ride a Fuji DR 6.0 or a P4C if someone gave me one. That all being said, Trek Y-Foils are both ugly and not ugly.
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Old 12-23-12, 07:33 AM
  #12  
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But it gets me over the mountain...

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Old 12-23-12, 07:50 AM
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The function of the modern components is quite desireable. imho

While I like the "look" of many older gruppos from various manufacturers, I find the function does not suit itself to my preferred riding style in many cases.

Take this new Box Dog Pelican for example.

My spouse is looking for a comfortable everyday, practical rider.

Add the new Winter produced BDP with a carefully mixed collection of practical, durable components and you can achieve a nice "look" and the function/performance she is hoping for.

...and it doesn't hurt to use an older component if it suits the build.





Pics from the BDP site.
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Old 12-23-12, 08:20 AM
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I'm building up my first NEW frame for myself (a Rawland 650B all-rounder), and I'm using a mix of mostly NEW and just a few vintage parts. I'm trying very hard to choose each piece strictly based on functionality/purpose, but sometimes aesthetics just has to trump when two modern parts that are roughly equivalent happen to differ mostly in the appearance department.

Case in point, I'm going with a previous-generation Shimano 10-spd RD, the Dura Ace 7800, which, IMO, is pretty:



Its successor, the current Dura Ace 7900, also a 10-spd RD, will do roughly the same job and weigh just a few grams lighter, but is Budd-Tuggly if you ask me:





While we're at it, I was also pondering a modern Campagnolo of Shimano drivetrain, but in the end decided to go with a modern Shimano drivetrain but vintage TA crankset which would give me a lot more versatility (and barely any weight penalty). Here's the current top of the line Campagnolo crankset offering (pretty):



And here's the current top of the line Shimano offering (ugly):



And a 40-year old TA crankset (which I'm going to use with a modern Phil Ti BB). I think this trumps all the new crankset offerings in both function and aesthetics, and will blend nicely with the modern polished alloy Shimano RD:

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Old 12-23-12, 09:06 AM
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Campagnolo changed their shifters for ergonomics, not styling. The hoods fit my hand better. There's much more braking power from the hoods with the new curve in the levers. I can hold the top knob with the outside edge of my palm resting on the hood to give me one more hand position on long rides (and that position is more aero, too)

They are kind of goofy looking. Their marketing department probably doesn't like it!

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Old 12-23-12, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
This thread is about ugly/not ugly, so....IMO:

Shimano should have stopped at the 9-sp Ultegra crankset. I'm not much on cranksets that look like stacked plates.
Agreed.
and man, jealous of all your centurion bikes.
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Old 12-23-12, 09:38 AM
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I don't think it's really fair to post photos of these new components, apart from their bikes, and consider them on their own. I agree the new Shimano cranks are pretty ugly, or should I say they're ugly pretty, but they look fine on a new bike. I know some of us take the whole "period correct" thing a bit too far (and I am one of the worst), but I think this is the point. It's not the components that are ugly, but the anachronism. Put a modern Ultegra crank on a 30-year old bike, and it will look awful.

As for period correct, I love this photograph:


But once it's installed on a bike, even the right bike, it doesn't look so hot any more:


And aside from that (not that anyone, apart from me, has actually tried one) it isn't much fun to use. Looks aren't everything.

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Old 12-23-12, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
I'm building up my first NEW frame for myself (a Rawland 650B all-rounder), and I'm using a mix of mostly NEW and just a few vintage parts. I'm trying very hard to choose each piece strictly based on functionality/purpose, but sometimes aesthetics just has to trump when two modern parts that are roughly equivalent happen to differ mostly in the appearance department.

Case in point, I'm going with a previous-generation Shimano 10-spd RD, the Dura Ace 7800, which, IMO, is pretty:



Its successor, the current Dura Ace 7900, also a 10-spd RD, will do roughly the same job and weigh just a few grams lighter, but is Budd-Tuggly if you ask me:





While we're at it, I was also pondering a modern Campagnolo of Shimano drivetrain, but in the end decided to go with a modern Shimano drivetrain but vintage TA crankset which would give me a lot more versatility (and barely any weight penalty). Here's the current top of the line Campagnolo crankset offering (pretty):



And here's the current top of the line Shimano offering (ugly):



And a 40-year old TA crankset (which I'm going to use with a modern Phil Ti BB). I think this trumps all the new crankset offerings in both function and aesthetics, and will blend nicely with the modern polished alloy Shimano RD:

Wondering which Rawland?

The Stag?

We are holding off on our BDP order until we see a prototype of the Stag.

It may work as well as a BDP frame, at half the price.
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Old 12-23-12, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by gomango View Post
Wondering which Rawland?

The Stag?

We are holding off on our BDP order until we see a prototype of the Stag.

It may work as well as a BDP frame, at half the price.
Yes, the Stag. I got my pre-order in early. I'm taking it on faith that the bike will be all it is purported to be. I know several Rawland owners personally, and they have nothing but praise for their Rawland frames. They seem like a fantastic bargain. I was all set to purchase an off-the-shelf Boulder at twice the price before I heard of Rawland's plan for their 650B all-rounder.

Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I don't think it's really fair to post photos of these new components, apart from their bikes, and consider them on their own. I agree the new Shimano cranks are pretty ugly, or should I say they're ugly pretty, but they look fine on a new bike.
I can kinda see where you're going but I disagree. I think anachronistic builds only look lame when they're affected-- trying to pull off a vintage-y look on a modern bike, for look's sake alone. But using a vintage part on a modern bike (or a modern part on a vintage bike) for purely functional reasons can work out great. The aesthetics begin to look beautiful from the purposefulness achieved. Function over form redefines the form.

Sometimes you can pull off modern ugly components on a modern bike, but sometimes even in the context of the whole, it's ugly. Take the modern Campy and Shimano cranks, for example. They're both current models and represent the state of the art, and are fitted to current high end bikes. Given the two cranksets in the context of complete bikes, I still think the Campy graces the modern bike with a classy yet modern look, while the Campagnolo just detracts. Just my $0.02.

Modern Shimano on a state of the art Seven:



Modern Campy on a state of the art Lynsky:

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Old 12-23-12, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
Yes, the Stag. I got my pre-order in early. I'm taking it on faith that the bike will be all it is purported to be. I know several Rawland owners personally, and they have nothing but praise for their Rawland frames. They seem like a fantastic bargain. I was all set to purchase an off-the-shelf Boulder at twice the price before I heard of Rawland's plan for their 650B all-rounder.



I can kinda see where you're going but I disagree. I think anachronistic builds only look lame when they're affected-- trying to pull off a vintage-y look on a modern bike, for look's sake alone. But using a vintage part on a modern bike (or a modern part on a vintage bike) for purely functional reasons can work out great. The aesthetics begin to look beautiful from the purposefulness achieved. Function over form redefines the form.

Sometimes you can pull off modern ugly components on a modern bike, but sometimes even in the context of the whole, it's ugly. Take the modern Campy and Shimano cranks, for example. They're both current models and represent the state of the art, and are fitted to current high end bikes. Given the two cranksets in the context of complete bikes, I still think the Campy graces the modern bike with a classy yet modern look, while the Campagnolo just detracts. Just my $0.02.

Modern Shimano on a state of the art Seven:



Modern Campy on a state of the art Lynsky:

Yes, the Stag is very tempting at that price.

Love to see one in person.

Usually Milltown Cycles here in Northfield gets a hold of the Rawlands frames pronto.

Maybe due to Sean and family living there before their relocation to California.

The new BDP is favorably priced as well for $1,600.

Produced by Winter bicycles, it looks like a full custom at half the price.

I will look forward to your Stag then.
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Old 12-23-12, 12:36 PM
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I draw the line at brifters. I can (sometimes) see why some people like the new stuff, but it mostly just looks like plastic junk to me. Maybe if I actually raced bicycles it would look different to me, but since I don't...
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Old 12-23-12, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by devinfan View Post
I draw the line at brifters. I can (sometimes) see why some people like the new stuff, but it mostly just looks like plastic junk to me. Maybe if I actually raced bicycles it would look different to me, but since I don't...
Agree, the performance improvement is not challenged, but its necessity is. I have no problems with other folks' choices, if you have it, doesn't mean you have to convince me I need them, or vise versa.

Related note:
Flappy paddle F1 style gear boxes and no clutch pedal is not for me....prefer to row my own gears.
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Old 12-23-12, 04:20 PM
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Hmmm, and coincidentally, I'm building two 9-sp C&V frames...with DT shifters.
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Old 12-23-12, 04:46 PM
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I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks that the porteur bikes in 1950s Paris are some of the most beautiful machines ever made by man. the French Art-Deco influence really shines through in these bikes; of particular beauty to me are the very deep yet gracefully blended valences on the mudguards, and the functional-yet-attractive structure of the chainrings.

To me, this:


is beautiful in a way that this:
Can never be. The modern aesthetic in so many things leaves me cold.

In a lot of ways, I think design, in general, peaked about 1955 and it's been a slow slide to mediocrity ever since.
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Old 12-23-12, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Blight View Post
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks that the porteur bikes in 1950s Paris are some of the most beautiful machines ever made by man. the French Art-Deco influence really shines through in these bikes; of particular beauty to me are the very deep yet gracefully blended valences on the mudguards, and the functional-yet-attractive structure of the chainrings.

To me, this:


is beautiful in a way that this:
Can never be. The modern aesthetic in so many things leaves me cold.

In a lot of ways, I think design, in general, peaked about 1955 and it's been a slow slide to mediocrity ever since.
Ditto !
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