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Freewheel question

Old 01-30-13, 02:02 PM
  #1  
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Freewheel question

So i brought my back wheel in to the LBS to see if i could get a newer replacement. its the original wheel off my '78 raleigh competition. its a campy hub and a millard FW. i asked if they had or could get something that would be a good replacement. he began looking at the campy catalogs and showing me some pricey units. I asked if there was anything cheaper like shimano that i could use. he instantly looked annoyed and said something along the lines of " well do you care about your bike and want it to work? " i just let out a "ha" smiled and said thanks and left.

so was he just being a jerk or is it widely known that you cant use anything with campy hubs other than campy FWs for new replacements? if not then some tips on where to get a decent cheap FW?
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Old 01-30-13, 02:10 PM
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It should be standard english threading. You can use any freewheel you want with that threading (the majority of them). I don't think Raleigh used the Maillard Helicomatic? Probably a 6-speed std. spaced 126mm hub?

Sunrace
IRD
Shimano

come to mind for new freewheels. The pickings in Shimano these days aren't too good for 6 speed, but the others have choices. What sort of gearing are you looking for? You'll probably want (need) to replace your chain as well. SRAM or KMC (?) 8 speed will be fine.
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Old 01-30-13, 02:24 PM
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I just went through this on a bike of mine

Italian and English are very close but not identical so they are not fully truly compatible.

Italian is 24 tpi and 35 mm or 1.378

English is 24 tpi and and 1.375 diameter

So as T- Mar noted (this is an edit) the first thing to determine is what thread the hub is. I assumed italian

What i got from my research is
* it is better to stay the same, especially extra stress is involved (strong rider, tandem) how much better is up to debate.
* You nnce you switch ie campy on british or british on campy you don't switch back as the threads on the hub get a little modifed by the mismatch (hard steel freewheel and soft aluminum hub.

So I put a 6 speed suntour on my campy nuovo tipo/gran sport hub. it is not super special or valuble so If goofed it up....the world would not end. If i had a really specialy hub/bike I would not switch.

Also to consider is what rear derailer you have. It is easy to get freewheels that exceed the range (or really push it enogh to require tweakiness) on older derailers like the nuovo record.

Last edited by squirtdad; 01-30-13 at 04:19 PM. Reason: clarified italian vs campy
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Old 01-30-13, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
I just went through this.....
You're erroneously equating Campagnolo with Italian threading. While this is sometimes true, it is not always the case. Campagnolo sold their hubs in English, French and Italian threaded versions. Given that this is a Raleigh with a Maillard freewheel it is most likely English threading on the hub. English threaded Camapgnolo hubs are marked with either the thread size or a single groove on the shell, next to the freewheel seat.
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Old 01-30-13, 02:56 PM
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I dropped one of these into my 126 mm Raleigh Super Course and it works okay. The gears are closer together so the 7 gears (almost) fit into the same space as a 6 speed freewheel.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 01-30-13, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
You're erroneously equating Campagnolo with Italian threading. While this is sometimes true, it is not always the case. Campagnolo sold their hubs in English, French and Italian threaded versions. Given that this is a Raleigh with a Maillard freewheel it is most likely English threading on the hub. English threaded Camapgnolo hubs are marked with either the thread size or a single groove on the shell, next to the freewheel seat.
T-mar your are correct..I edited my post. My reading of OP is that the issue is that the hub is not english threaded.

thanks.
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Old 01-30-13, 03:16 PM
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I only have 5 speeds, i hear it is usually not a problem to bump it up to 6...? the RD is nuovo record btw...
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Old 01-30-13, 03:17 PM
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If the rim is shot, here's what I'd do:

a) Remove the original Maillard freewheel.
b) Unlace the hub from the spokes and rim.
c) Clean, regrease and replace the bearings (if needed) on the internals of the hub and polish the outside.
d) Find an LBS which will lace a new rim to your original hub (and if you have money do the same to the front hub as well).
e) Send your Maillard to me for a complimentary cleaning and service (I just serviced a few Maillards) or find a NOS suitable vintage freewheel.
f) Revisit the original LBS with your rebuilt wheel or the whole bike, and show him what a nice solution you came up with.


Seriously, the LBS did not suggest rebuilding the original hubs with new rims? That is disgraceful!

Here is a closeup of a Campagnolo Tipo hub I had my LBS lace to a new set of Sun CR18 rims for a wheelset.

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Old 01-30-13, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RALEIGH_COMP View Post
I only have 5 speeds, i hear it is usually not a problem to bump it up to 6...? the RD is nuovo record btw...
So do you have a medium range freewheel, something like 14-24 or 14-26? Then you need something like this, a Regina Corsa,



or even this Suntour.

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Old 01-30-13, 03:38 PM
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Your replacing the freewheel right? Any shimano 6spd should be a good option. You may need a little respacing of your hub and derailleur adjustment.

The 'mechanic' is an idiot and since you have a Campagnolo hub he thinks you need a Campagnolo cassette. I would be suprised if he even knew how to remove a freewheel.
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Old 01-30-13, 04:03 PM
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My rims and spokes are in decent shape, some scratches but pretty true and round. here is a pic of my actual FW.

I had a bad near crash on because if this FW, the teeth have grooves on the tips that the plates of the chain would get stuck in. it feels like freewheeling, but forward. needless to say i got furious at it (and myself and attcked it with a file. It looks pretty horrid, but it doesnt get stuck between gears atleast. I bought a new chain not long ago aswell.
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Old 01-30-13, 04:16 PM
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From what I could gather from the catalog on Kurt's site, this came with a 14-22, which looks about like what you show in your picture. It almost certainly is English threaded. Not quite ready to drop $500 on a titanium Campy 11 speed cassette? Looks like it uses the splined shimano remover? I agree with BG's assessment... it could be amusing to take it back to him and watch him try to remove the cassette... nah, bad idea.
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Old 01-30-13, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RALEIGH_COMP View Post
My rims and spokes are in decent shape, some scratches but pretty true and round. here is a pic of my actual FW.
This baby needs to be retired! Lots of options out there. Do you ride mostly in flat areas? Do you need any lower gears? I built this Regina corncob with a bailout gear.

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Old 01-30-13, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Pars View Post
From what I could gather from the catalog on Kurt's site, this came with a 14-22, which looks about like what you show in your picture. It almost certainly is English threaded. Not quite ready to drop $500 on a titanium Campy 11 speed cassette? Looks like it uses the splined shimano remover? I agree with BG's assessment... it could be amusing to take it back to him and watch him try to remove the cassette... nah, bad idea.
I don't think that's a 14-22T. It looks more like 14-18T. The remover is the Atom splined tool, which is not comaptible with Shimano. The splines are more numerous and V-shaped (or truncated V's, depending on the tool manufacturer). IIRC, they're compatible with the splined Regina, splined Zeus and Phil Wood removers.

It's really too bad this turned out to be a narrow range freewheel, as I don't believe there are any modern manufacturers. The modern, HyperGlide compatible freewheels shift so much better. It's even readily noticeable on corncobs.
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Old 01-30-13, 06:35 PM
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Freewheel question

Ebay is your online vintage bike store.. Look for a freewheel that's new or moderate wear. I prefer SunTour or Atom/mallaird as I have the removers for those. Atoms are in abundance because they were standard on Schwinns for years. With shipping expect to pay $20-30.
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Old 01-30-13, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
I don't think that's a 14-22T. It looks more like 14-18T. The remover is the Atom splined tool, which is not comaptible with Shimano. The splines are more numerous and V-shaped (or truncated V's, depending on the tool manufacturer). IIRC, they're compatible with the splined Regina, splined Zeus and Phil Wood removers.

It's really too bad this turned out to be a narrow range freewheel, as I don't believe there are any modern manufacturers. The modern, HyperGlide compatible freewheels shift so much better. It's even readily noticeable on corncobs.
Best bet would be to build off of a Sachs or Regina body. I recently built this Regina CX. I'll go and slap a Sachs together and post a picture shortly.



If anyone is counting, it is 12-13-14-15-16-17.
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Old 01-30-13, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
I just went through this on a bike of mine

Italian and English are very close but not identical so they are not fully truly compatible.

Italian is 24 tpi and 35 mm or 1.378

English is 24 tpi and and 1.375 diameter
More significant is the thread angle difference:



Threading an Italian thread freewheel onto an English thread hub (or vice-versa) will deform the softer aluminum threads on the hub, so it's consider a "class B fit." As long as you don't go back and forth between matched and unmatched freewheels, it shouldn't be a problem, even in the long run.
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Old 01-30-13, 07:38 PM
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Campag threaded Export hubs for the world market, and Mine is BSC.
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Old 01-30-13, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Pars View Post


Looks like it uses the splined shimano remover?
No, Maillard uses the Zeus splined standard, so a Phil Wood splined, Park FR-4 or Bicycle Research CT-2 remover will fit the Maillard freewheel. The Park or Phil tools are preferred, as the CT-2 requires removal of the axle locknut and spacers in order to seat the tool properly.
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Old 01-30-13, 07:41 PM
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Okay, here is the Sachs 6 speed I just threw together with the spare bits at hand. It is a 13-14-15-17-19-21. Maybe an acceptable alternative for the flat costal region of So. CA.

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Old 01-30-13, 09:22 PM
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dang pastorbob, flashing all those nice FWs, some one is getting a PM
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Old 01-31-13, 08:47 AM
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If the OP has the clearance for a 7 speed and is willing to spend the money, an IRD may be an acceptable alternative. They're available in 13-14-15-17-19-21-24T. That's similar to the Pastor Bob's Sachs, with the benefit of an additional, bail-out gear and the improved shifting of HyperGlide compatible cogs.
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Old 01-31-13, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RALEIGH_COMP View Post
dang pastorbob, flashing all those nice FWs, some one is getting a PM
Check PastorBob's signature. He runs a day spa for freewheels.

Back to the "mechanic" not knowing what he was doing, back in '95 or so working in a shop I heard a customer at the parts counter ask for a Suntour FW for his Fuji I think it like a '85 Team or something but it was before index. The dope at the parts counter told him we didn't have any Suntour parts and therefore had nothing for his bike. I tried to tell the idiot (the parts guy) that a Sachs or Shimano 6spd would be perfect but he insisted you could not use a sachs or shimano on a Suntour bike. Unbelievable! Last I heard he was at Indipendant with the rest of the crowd that was building bikes with tubesets swipped from Fat Chance in the closig weeks.
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Old 01-31-13, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
Check PastorBob's signature. He runs a day spa for freewheels....
I like to say; "Treat your freewheel like it's the love of your life!"

Can anyone say "miracles?" Before:



After:



To be fair, there was an excessive amount of corrosion under all that gunk. Thus the reason for the pitting in the cog plating after cleaning.

Here's an exploded view of a Suntour Perfect before and after.


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Old 01-31-13, 10:13 AM
  #25  
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I normally convert my 5-speed (120mm) rear wheels to ultra-6 (122), and my standard 6's (126) to 7's (128), although that extra 2mm occasionally demands an additional axle washer/spacer on the drive side and minor redishing.

My Bianchi (see signature) did evidently come w/ Italian freewheel threading (Regina America on Ofmega), but I concur that a Raleigh is more likely to have English/ISO.
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