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Any Silk Screen Printing experts in here?

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Any Silk Screen Printing experts in here?

Old 02-05-13, 02:22 AM
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Any Silk Screen Printing experts in here?

I want to print two color water slide decals. The colors will be white and black. Should I flood the white ink completely underneath the solid black areas or not? One thought is that it might help the black look richer.... the other thought is it might mix with the black and make for a nasty color. Right now, I have the white trapping into the black.

Dumb question, do I need to let the first ink dry before I attempt a second? Which should go down first, white or black?

I hope someone here knows, I don't want to join a screen printing forum!

Here is my art (the magenta represents a spot white ink)


1978_Schwinn_Superior_Silk screen by mkeller234, on Flickr

Here you can see the white trapping into the black


Screen shot 2013-02-05 at 3.07.41 AM by mkeller234, on Flickr

Here is my black separation


1978_Schwinn_Superior_Silk screen_MR_J47124_p001_Black_v0 by mkeller234, on Flickr

Here is my white serparation


1978_Schwinn_Superior_Silk screen_MR_J47124_p001_Spot white_v0 by mkeller234, on Flickr
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Old 02-05-13, 04:11 AM
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the alignment is critical,

you could find a book in the library about how to- or find it on the internet- I always wanted to try this out myself also.
mike
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Old 02-05-13, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by puchfinnland View Post
the alignment is critical,

you could find a book in the library about how to- or find it on the internet- I always wanted to try this out myself also.
mike
Definitely, I did add a thick trap though, so there is a bit of a fudge factor in there. I'm mostly curious if I should just flood the white underneath the heavy black areas. I was going to write an email to the local group "arts in stark" and see if they would help me any.
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Old 02-05-13, 07:18 AM
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White first, allow to dry completely, then black. You want your black to be a slightly larger spread than the white. Depending upon the white coverage, you may need to do a double tap of white. Two coats will be far more opaque than will one.
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Old 02-05-13, 07:22 AM
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I generally didn't like a partial overlap. I always found alignment easier if the base layer extended to the perimeter of the upper layer, or to the inside extent. Having a partial overlap leaves one some fudge room, but then there are the risks you've already pointed out, and potential for some texture abnormalities when viewing closely.
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Old 02-05-13, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by 20grit View Post
I generally didn't like a partial overlap. I always found alignment easier if the base layer extended to the perimeter of the upper layer, or to the inside extent. Having a partial overlap leaves one some fudge room, but then there are the risks you've already pointed out, and potential for some texture abnormalities when viewing closely.
Not to be argumentative but I don't know a single silkscreen or who would recommend doing absolutely perfect butt registration. With that said I'll also point out that a slight overlap or trap will in production appear to be much more authentic.
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Old 02-05-13, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AZORCH View Post
Not to be argumentative but I don't know a single silkscreen or who would recommend doing absolutely perfect butt registration. With that said I'll also point out that a slight overlap or trap will in production appear to be much more authentic.
Well, I'll be the first to admit I'm not normal. That's just my preference for doing things.
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Old 02-05-13, 09:24 AM
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Put the white first. On the type with the white outlines, I'd fill those letters with white too.

Two hits of white would make the white denser. We sometimes would add a tiny bit of silver to white to get it to be more opaque.

Don't forget, a waterslide decal has the colors trapped between oversize clear top and bottom.

My first graphics job was in a silkscreen shop circa 1969. I also taught in college.
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Old 02-05-13, 11:00 AM
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Ex Pro screen printer here!

White first (two pulls if you want it opaque) then dry. Second colour is the black which should "trap" the white. The white should not flood or bleed to the edge of the black.
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Old 02-05-13, 02:35 PM
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Thank you for the help guys. This is my first time to do anything besides a t-shirt. The last time I did two colors turned out.... not so well, it's been since about 14 years though.
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Old 02-05-13, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
Put the white first. On the type with the white outlines, I'd fill those letters with white too.

Two hits of white would make the white denser. We sometimes would add a tiny bit of silver to white to get it to be more opaque.

Don't forget, a waterslide decal has the colors trapped between oversize clear top and bottom.

My first graphics job was in a silkscreen shop circa 1969. I also taught in college.
I was hoping you would see this, especially after seeing the Reynolds decals that you printed. Flooding the white makes sense to me, would obviously help registration too. I'm not sure I understand this part: "Don't forget, a waterslide decal has the colors trapped between oversize clear top and bottom."

Originally Posted by vjp View Post
Ex Pro screen printer here!

White first (two pulls if you want it opaque) then dry. Second colour is the black which should "trap" the white. The white should not flood or bleed to the edge of the black.
Two pulls of white seems to be the consensus, I wouldn't have known that. In my art, I have the white trapping into the black, are you suggesting I should reverse the trap? Can you expand on why you don't think I should flood the white underneath the black?
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Old 02-05-13, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AZORCH View Post
Not to be argumentative but I don't know a single silkscreen or who would recommend doing absolutely perfect butt registration. With that said I'll also point out that a slight overlap or trap will in production appear to be much more authentic.
I should look at the originals with a loupe, maybe i'll get a better idea of what they did?
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Old 02-05-13, 02:58 PM
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I arranged a sailing competition for 12 years, at one time I designed and offered t shirts.

I learned long sleeve T's sold like hotcakes, I lettered the arms and made sure the letters were hollow instead of ink filled, when the shirt wears the inked part is stiffer and eventually the fibers let go between the stiff letters.

we als do a transfer image one year- that was a mistake as they faded so fast.

I dont like sleeping in t's that have too much ink-they are all stiff and not so comfortable.

just my 2 cents
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Old 02-05-13, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
"Don't forget, a waterslide decal has the colors trapped between oversize clear top and bottom."

Can you expand on why you don't think I should flood the white underneath the black?
The only thing that makes a silkscreened waterslide is the lacquer ink. There should be a clear, 1/16" or so bigger than everything with no holes printed first on the bottom and last on the top so the colors are sealed between the clear. The ink is the decal, it picks up adhesive from the special paper after soaked in water.

The white should go under the black (not really a flood, that's means covering the surface). In your art, I'd fill the open white letters to solid white and print the black on top to avoid fit problems.
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Old 02-05-13, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
The only thing that makes a silkscreened waterslide is the lacquer ink. There should be a clear, 1/16" or so bigger than everything with no holes printed first on the bottom and last on the top so the colors are sealed between the clear. The ink is the decal, it picks up adhesive from the special paper after soaked in water.

The white should go under the black (not really a flood, that's means covering the surface). In your art, I'd fill the open white letters to solid white and print the black on top to avoid fit problems.
Ok, I see what you are saying now. So I actually need to print a clear ink onto the "decal paper" first. So would this be done sort of like a three color job, using a third screen for the clear?
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Old 02-05-13, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
Ok, I see what you are saying now. So I actually need to print a clear ink onto the "decal paper" first. So would this be done sort of like a three color job, using a third screen for the clear?
Yes. The clear is the same screen top and bottom, slightly oversize to everything. It should incapsulate all the other colors, otherwise, when you slide your letters off the sheet, they'd be individual. The ink is the decal.

Here's a sheet I did. The light blue represents the clear, slightly bigger than everything. In this full color art its on the bottom with the colors on top. The same clear would print on top. You can make your clear by duplicating the art, selecting all, filling it and adding a stroke around.

Typically you print your colors light to dark to overprint and try and reduce tight registration problems.
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Old 02-06-13, 04:58 AM
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Been keeping an eye on this thread for a specific reason - my Legnano Gran Premio. The GP has a stenciled on down tube art work...



Though I do not like repainting frame sets, the Legnano has such a cosmetically damaged top tube that I am considering a full repaint. However, the down tube decal is not a decal. Any ideas on how to do this would be appriciated.
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Old 02-06-13, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post


Yes. The clear is the same screen top and bottom, slightly oversize to everything. It should incapsulate all the other colors, otherwise, when you slide your letters off the sheet, they'd be individual. The ink is the decal.

Here's a sheet I did. The light blue represents the clear, slightly bigger than everything. In this full color art its on the bottom with the colors on top. The same clear would print on top. You can make your clear by duplicating the art, selecting all, filling it and adding a stroke around.

Typically you print your colors light to dark to overprint and try and reduce tight registration problems.
Thanks! That was very helpful. That sheet of art looks great!

Ok, now the follow up questions:

Is there any specific paper or ink that you would recommend over others? I do want to limit my spending, naturally.
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Old 02-06-13, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
Been keeping an eye on this thread for a specific reason - my Legnano Gran Premio. The GP has a stenciled on down tube art work...



Though I do not like repainting frame sets, the Legnano has such a cosmetically damaged top tube that I am considering a full repaint. However, the down tube decal is not a decal. Any ideas on how to do this would be appriciated.
The feathered edges of the white make me wonder if it was done with a stencil. Obviously the red oval went down, then the white.
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Old 02-06-13, 09:36 AM
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Yes, those early Legnanos were stenciled.
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Old 02-06-13, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
Thanks! That was very helpful. That sheet of art looks great!

Ok, now the follow up questions:

Is there any specific paper or ink that you would recommend over others? I do want to limit my spending, naturally.
Its been decades since I printed any waterslides.
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Old 02-06-13, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
Been keeping an eye on this thread for a specific reason - my Legnano Gran Premio. The GP has a stenciled on down tube art work...



Though I do not like repainting frame sets, the Legnano has such a cosmetically damaged top tube that I am considering a full repaint. However, the down tube decal is not a decal. Any ideas on how to do this would be appriciated.
Originally it was done with a spray mask, thin nickel or stainless steel that clamped over the tube. Pretty wild. I saw some examples of this tooling for sale in a set of images covering an Italian swap meet. Especially interesting as it required two masks for the two color art. Not sure how they registered them. I would be tempted to clamp a band with a registration point first and key off that.

I guess one could also silk screen them and use a coarse screen to mimic that "frayed" edge.
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