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Help with weird horizontal dropouts

Old 02-09-13, 11:11 AM
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Help with weird horizontal dropouts

Hi all, I am hoping to purchase this frame for use with an internal hub, but it has these weird horizontal dropouts. Some sort of metal shim seems to have been brazed into the drive side slot to make them essentially a vertical dropout.



Has anyone seen this before? Is there a good way to convert it back to a horizontal dropout? I am thinking about drilling it out, and then using a file to clean up the remaining metal. Or, possibly using a grinder to cut it out. But I dont have a grinder so would have to find one to borrow or purchase one (not likely). Plus I dont like the idea of taking power tools to the frame, but thats the best I can think of so far. Any other ideas?

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Old 02-09-13, 11:16 AM
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That came from that factory like that. In the early days of Indexing it was a way to cheaply ensure the wheel got positioned correctly in the dropout.

You could carefully cut it out, as you suggest, or simply use a tensioner or even an old derailleur, that really confuses people!





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Old 02-09-13, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by H.S.Clydesdale
Hi all, I am hoping to purchase this frame for use with an internal hub, but it has these weird horizontal dropouts. Some sort of metal shim seems to have been brazed into the drive side slot to make them essentially a vertical dropout.



Has anyone seen this before? Is there a good way to convert it back to a horizontal dropout? I am thinking about drilling it out, and then using a file to clean up the remaining metal. Or, possibly using a grinder to cut it out. But I dont have a grinder so would have to find one to borrow or purchase one (not likely). Plus I dont like the idea of taking power tools to the frame, but thats the best I can think of so far. Any other ideas?
That is not a shim but rather, a short horizontal dropout that was designed to be used with a derailleur gear and, as it is, will not allow for proper chain tensioning with an IGH without use of a chain tensioner.

On the bright side, a little hand work can remove that "shim" which is basically part of the dropout casting and make that dropout into a conventional one. After doing that you will want to paint / seal the bare metal to prevent corrosion.
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Old 02-09-13, 11:39 AM
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Dremel it out, I've done it on a few frames. Not a big deal, or a deal breaker when it comes to setting up a bike with an IGH or single speed/fixed.
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Old 02-09-13, 12:01 PM
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What kind of frame is this? Do your plans include doing a Bobbit on the RD hanger? Unless this is nearly free you may want to cast about for a nicer frame. I think frames with this set up rather than the screws were likely to be a ChoMO main triangle and maybe a lower quality rear triangle.
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Old 02-09-13, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by seely
Dremel it out, I've done it on a few frames. Not a big deal, or a deal breaker when it comes to setting up a bike with an IGH or single speed/fixed.
Fify:

"To drew the frame, dremel it out. I've drewed a few frames. Not a big deal, or a deal breaker when it comes to setting up a bike with an IGH or single speed/fixed."




My dad taught me to measure thrice, cut once. So before you cut, ask yourself, is this frame better off with a derailleur? Is there a better frame for my purposes? Is this a quality, sought after frame? If you answered "no" cut away!
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Old 02-09-13, 12:33 PM
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I don't see how cutting out the dropout slot would qualify as "drewing" the frame. He could still use it with a derailleur, and it was a stupid feature to begin with. s like a good idea to me.
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Old 02-09-13, 12:40 PM
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Specialized MTB? My Hard-Rock had them, it was an all cro-mo frame.
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Old 02-09-13, 12:46 PM
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I have repaired a few broken drops, and this one is clearly stronger where it is needed.

I would only cut it out if there is a need.
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Old 02-09-13, 12:56 PM
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thanks for all the advice. The frame is nearly free, $30, plus handelbars, stem, seatpost, derailer and brake levers. I figured I would buy it for the handelbars alone, which are a good shape drop and a bit wider than my current bars. Not only that, but this is a 67cm frame, my size and somewhat hard to come by. It is just a chromo main triangle, but thats not a deal killer for me, because they only made 67cm frames in the high sales volume bikes, which were typically chromo main tubes only. The really special frames never made it past 63.5cm, that I know of anyway...
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Old 02-09-13, 01:08 PM
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I would drill it, then hacksaw the in between bit and then clean it up with a dremel.
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Old 02-09-13, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by David Newton
Specialized MTB? My Hard-Rock had them, it was an all cro-mo frame.
I somehow got stuck on the late '80s Fujis or Univegas, never thoguht of a MTB frame.


Originally Posted by H.S.Clydesdale
thanks for all the advice. The frame is nearly free, $30, plus handelbars, stem, seatpost, derailer and brake levers. I figured I would buy it for the handelbars alone, which are a good shape drop and a bit wider than my current bars. Not only that, but this is a 67cm frame, my size and somewhat hard to come by. It is just a chromo main triangle, but thats not a deal killer for me, because they only made 67cm frames in the high sales volume bikes, which were typically chromo main tubes only. The really special frames never made it past 63.5cm, that I know of anyway...
AH a 67, that explains the avitar! I just realiazed something. I don't think you can leave it and use a tensioner, the antirotation washers may not fit in the dropout with that in there. I would check and make sure they fit and there is space to move the hub for adjusting the chain.
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Old 02-09-13, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
What kind of frame is this? Do your plans include doing a Bobbit on the RD hanger?
I didn't get that until I Googled Bobbit and got Lorena.
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Old 02-09-13, 03:53 PM
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I've seen these before, on relatively low-end frames. They seem to combine the worst features of vertical and horizontal dropouts, with none of the advantages of either. I wouldn't hesitate to file or Dremel out the offending metal, nor would I worry greatly about loss of strength. These dropouts lack holes for adjuster bolts, which are a frequent point of failure on forward-facing horizontal dropouts.
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Old 02-09-13, 04:23 PM
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Late 80's Stumpjumpers have this same kind of hybrid dropout. They are easy to file out.
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Old 02-09-13, 05:25 PM
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drill and file it is. I just picked up the frame and it is officially mine now.

I am not planning on cutting the RD hanger either. May as well leave it there. I am currently a huge fan of my internal hub, but I am fickle and may become obsessed with derailers at any moment.

BianchiGirll, I agree, I dont think the antirotation washers will fit as it is.

I am currently on another frame that is very similar and works great, so I think I will save this a project frame. Strip it and powder coat it, along with drilling out this dropout. Then transfer everything over to it and so I can do the same to my current frame. Either that... or it will sit in the garage for several years while I stare at it.

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Old 02-09-13, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by RFC
Late 80's Stumpjumpers have this same kind of hybrid dropout. They are easy to file out.
My "Mississippi Schwinn" Le Tour is like that, also. When I set it up as a single-speed, I tried it out. It all worked perfectly. Put it together before you do anything else. As Kermit said: only cut if there's a need.
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Old 02-10-13, 09:21 AM
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You don't have to remove all of it to be able to adjust your chain tension.
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Old 02-10-13, 12:26 PM
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I had an '87 Schwinn World Sport, built by Giant in Taiwan, that had the same dropouts, although the biting faces of it weren't painted like your variant. I've seen other Giant built bikes from that period that are the same.

When I turned mine into a fixed gear, I ground the thing just a bit back with a dremel, which took a long time, and put some primer on it. It gave me no problems.
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Old 02-11-13, 08:57 AM
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It must have been popular in 1987, this is a '87 Nishiki Sport. I am guessing it was just a few years after these showed up that actual vertical dropouts became the norm.
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Old 02-11-13, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by H.S.Clydesdale
It must have been popular in 1987, this is a '87 Nishiki Sport. I am guessing it was just a few years after these showed up that actual vertical dropouts became the norm.


I believe that would be corect. As mentioned the whole idea was getting the wheel in the correct position everytime for index shifting but doing it cheaply. This eliminated the expense of drilling for screws like on Campi style drops, and prevented cheaper bolt in spacers from falling or being taken out. More importantly it was cheaper than either.
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Old 05-06-13, 02:35 PM
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old thread, I know, but I have an update. I finally got around to cutting out that dropout. It was not nearly as difficult as I had feared. I used a cordless drill, and just held the frame on a table. It took one full battery pack to complete the hole. Then I used a file to remove the rest. It looks like it never had anything in it.

With that done, I could go ahead and move everything to this frame. It has better paint than my previous frame, and a more slack seat tube angle, which I think I prefer. I was not sure about the paint color on this one, but now that I have it put together I think it looks great... Rivendell-esque.

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Old 05-06-13, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by seely
Dremel it out, I've done it on a few frames. Not a big deal, or a deal breaker when it comes to setting up a bike with an IGH or single speed/fixed.
+1
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Old 05-06-13, 04:06 PM
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Is that a Sturmey Archer hub? I'm sure I'd like one of those.

You may have heard this a hundred times so I'm sorry in advance: the angle of your seat indicates it might be too high.
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Old 05-06-13, 04:13 PM
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It's more likely that, being a giant, he's compressing the springs when he sits on the saddle.

I like that build a lot, btw. Very sensible and classy.
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