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Check out this weird old derailleur - Suntour S1

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Check out this weird old derailleur - Suntour S1

Old 02-17-13, 09:33 PM
  #1  
Baytree
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Check out this weird old derailleur - Suntour S1

Got this a while ago in a box of random bike junk. It's a neat Suntour s-1 derailleur, designed to mount under the chainstay. Pity none of my bikes have the right braze-ons to install it. Apparently it only ever came one a couple models of bike.



Looks like this on a bike:

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Old 02-17-13, 09:38 PM
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wow! Never an issue with chainwrap!

Cool thanks for sharing.
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Old 02-17-13, 09:39 PM
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Saw one of these recently on a bike. Momentarily blew my mind. Then I was thinking I'm surprised someone hasn't brought this bike for time trial bike or some new aero bike...seems to have some potential for being more aero.
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Old 02-17-13, 09:44 PM
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How does it mount? Any reason you can't use a p clamp? Doesn't it shift abysmally?
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Old 02-17-13, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by goatalope View Post
I'm surprised someone hasn't brought this bike for time trial bike or some new aero bike...seems to have some potential for being more aero.
Then after that, you have to start seating the rider under the bottom bracket to make it even more aero.
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Old 02-17-13, 09:47 PM
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I've seen several of those on Schwinn Criss Cross bikes.
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Old 02-17-13, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tombc View Post
How does it mount? Any reason you can't use a p clamp? Doesn't it shift abysmally?
I have no idea how it shifts... to make it extra-weird, the indexing is built into the derailleur.

As for mounting... dunno. It's got a hanger bolt shaped like a normal derailleur's, so I guess they just put the hanger up the chainstay instead of on the dropout. I'm going to have a go with p-clamps and duck tape.
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Old 02-17-13, 11:00 PM
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.....

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Old 02-17-13, 11:04 PM
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No bends in the cable, good stuff.

This is the type of stuff that always makes me wonder why in the world suntour is not back in business, their engineering was better than almost anything in the marked at the time, products that always worked.. do you guys imagine a suntour brand brifters??
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Old 02-17-13, 11:08 PM
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A slant-parallelogram chainstay-mounted RD. That's a cool update of the old Le Cyclo derailleurs.
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Old 02-18-13, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ultraman6970 View Post
This is the type of stuff that always makes me wonder why in the world suntour is not back in business, their engineering was better than almost anything in the marked at the time, products that always worked.. do you guys imagine a suntour brand brifters??
Marketing, marketing, marketing. That 500lb gorilla called Shimano managed to come up with some just-advanced-enough products to turn on the customers (and, bicycle builders), without going too far ahead on what the market was willing to buy. Couple that with some turkey products on the part of Shimano and Campagnolo at the same time, plus the other European manufacturers being unable to avoid being marginalized in the marketplace, thus killing cash flow which hurt R&D, and you've got the current three engine train.
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Old 02-18-13, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
A slant-parallelogram chainstay-mounted RD. That's a cool update of the old Le Cyclo derailleurs.
Isn't that what they said about it in the dancing chain?

I do agree it was a neat idea but it came too late after MTBs were popular but still too late to help Suntour in any way.
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Old 02-18-13, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ultraman6970 View Post
No bends in the cable, good stuff.

This is the type of stuff that always makes me wonder why in the world suntour is not back in business, their engineering was better than almost anything in the marked at the time, products that always worked.. do you guys imagine a suntour brand brifters??
Screw brifters, their command shifters are already perfect in my eyes.

I'd be interested to see how well it works, I know the few Suntour gripshifts I've seen feel much higher quality than Sram's offerings. Actually, I think I saw a bike with this hanging up waiting to be worked on, maybe I will get to see what it's like if another coworker doesn't grab it first.

One bike that passed through the shop was a Murray that had a cheap version of this, with a 3-speed freewheel, and I think the indexing was in the shifter. Didn't get to ride it though.
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Old 10-07-15, 04:50 PM
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Bump..... just for the heck of it. First I've ever heard of it and only came across info from searching 1992/93 Suntour.
http://mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekataloge/.../SunTour93.pdf

and
SunTour S-1 derailleur (S120)

Also learned it was used on some '92 and '93 Schwinn's
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Old 10-07-15, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Baytree View Post
I have no idea how it shifts... snip I'm going to have a go with p-clamps and duck tape.
Don't hurt yourself with a duct tape Macgyver. That setup looks like a dog with fleas.


ooops, zombie advice.
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Old 10-07-15, 06:40 PM
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I'm liking the idea but have never seen one or review of. Guess one would have to mod the chainstay and build a bike around it. Go funky with DT shifters and aero brake levers. Though curious if a short chainstay and this mount would cause heel interference.
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Old 10-07-15, 06:43 PM
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I would have expected such weirdness more with Shimano than Suntour...... but heck!, there it is!!
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Old 10-07-15, 06:48 PM
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Whats also cool is a possibility using a friction DT lever which becomes indexed because of the derailleurs stepped cam. Think about it!

images of a 1993 Schwinn crosscut and S-1:

[IMG][/IMG]

Whats with the piece behind the cogs?


Last edited by crank_addict; 10-07-15 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 10-07-15, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
I'm liking the idea but have never seen one or review of. Guess one would have to mod the chainstay and build a bike around it. Go funky with DT shifters and aero brake levers. Though curious if a short chainstay and this mount would cause heel interference.
I have one on a 93 Schwinn Crisscross and love it. Shifts fast and accurate.
The bike can fall to the right and the derailleur won't get jacked up.

I have the bike up for sale, but only because it's too small for me and I now have one in that category that fits better.


I see it as SunTour's last ditch effort for spec OEM equipment since their share of the market had dropped to near 0 in '93.
Good stuff though.
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Old 10-08-15, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post

Whats with the piece behind the cogs?

I think it might be a chain rest so you can actually remove the rear wheel. Looks like it'd be pretty hard to do otherwise.
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Old 10-08-15, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by justin10054 View Post
I think it might be a chain rest so you can actually remove the rear wheel. Looks like it'd be pretty hard to do otherwise.
I'm guessing you are correct on this. I own a Dahon Speed 7 folder which has their own RD mounted on the chainstay instead of the dropout. Not as far forward as the Suntour S1, but still a royal PITA when it comes time to remove the rear wheel.

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Old 10-08-15, 05:56 AM
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I saw one at a rest area on a local MUP. I stopped and talked to the guy- he let me take pix of it.

It was just his old bike that he was just out riding around on. He had no idea that it was interesting or anything- it was just "his bike" and seemed kind of baffled that I was interested in it.
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Old 07-01-18, 08:16 AM
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I just saved a Schwinn from a dumpster that has this set up on it. I never noticed it until a friend took note of how unusual it was. When I looked at it, I at first thought it was broken. What a cool set up.
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