Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Campy Nuovo Record Triple Crank: Derailleur Question

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Campy Nuovo Record Triple Crank: Derailleur Question

Old 02-22-13, 12:44 PM
  #1  
crandress 
Crapmaster
Thread Starter
 
crandress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: 1953 Terrot, 1980 Mercian Vincitore, Bridgestone MB3, Atala Corsa GS, Bottecchia Gran Turismo, Raleigh Olympian

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 35 Posts
Campy Nuovo Record Triple Crank: Derailleur Question

I have an old Mercian Touring frame a mixture of Campy parts, mostly Nuovo Record. I wanted to add a triple crank and have located a Nuovo Record triple, which I did not even know they made. The question, will the Nuovo Record derailleurs handle it, or did they make NR derailleurs specifically for the triple?

Sorry, just getting back into cycling after nearly 20 years, used to know all this stuff. Got a comfort bike to start, but already dreaming of riding the Mercian again which I have kept all these years.

Thanks - Chris
crandress is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 12:57 PM
  #2  
Wulf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 805
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 246 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 24 Times in 19 Posts
The NR front will handle a tripple. Depending on the sizes of your smallest chaninring and largest cog you may need more capacity then the NR rear. BUT you can get a long cage that will handle pretty much any gears (within reason).
Wulf is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 01:01 PM
  #3  
Shaneferd
Senior Member
 
Shaneferd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NE Wisconsin
Posts: 257

Bikes: Bike(s)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The NR front should handle a triple crankset if mounted correctly. The compatibility lies in matching pre/post 1978 Record components together, as the latter derailleur had a curved safety lip added to the cage. Using a post '78 front derailleur on an earlier bottom bracket/crankset setup can result in conflict with the drive side crank arm, when extended onto the largest chainring.

Nice finders on the crankset, they can be dated on the inside near the taper well. No featured date code is the early type.
Shaneferd is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 01:17 PM
  #4  
LeicaLad 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Work in Asia, now based in Vienna, VA
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Several details might help.

First, all the above is spot on.

Second, there is the NR Triple that was actually made by Campy. The drawback is that the smallest inner ring is 36. That's a lot of crank just to get down to 36t. There are what we call Triplized Campy cranksets, which are a standard NR/SR set of arms that have been drilled to a smaller bcd, and take down to a 28 w/o problems. Here's an image of one of those with an SR outer ring and TA middle and inner. The drilling was done by Elliot Bay Cycles in Seattle.



Alternatively, you might consider other cranks that can give you a wider range from large to small. TA or the Stronglight 99 would both be "period correct" to your Mercian and more practical. Really, it comes down to your knees and the terrain you want/need to cover.

As for the rear, there is the classic Campagnolo Rally, which was the wide range rear. Finding one for a reasonable price, however, can be a challenge. A Suntour GT (Cyclone or otherwise) works better and is also period correct. OR, if it's Campy or die, one can now purchase replacement cage arms for the Campy NR that turn your old NR rear into a 2nd Gen Rally. They run about $30. (I'll see if I can find photos.) Last I knew, Elliot Bay had these available, too. Any LBS with a Soma catalog can also order them.

see here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/8379107...7629371791998/

SO, talk to us about your riding needs and desires. Lots of Mercian fans here, too. SO, post a few photos, eh?

Cheers!
__________________
1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse) (1 owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (The Garage Queen) (crashed out)
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement frame)
1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
(replacing the stolen 1981 Tom Ritchey Everest custom)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)


Last edited by LeicaLad; 02-22-13 at 01:19 PM. Reason: link to new cages
LeicaLad is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 01:17 PM
  #5  
crandress 
Crapmaster
Thread Starter
 
crandress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: 1953 Terrot, 1980 Mercian Vincitore, Bridgestone MB3, Atala Corsa GS, Bottecchia Gran Turismo, Raleigh Olympian

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 35 Posts
Awesome info guys, thanks. Will have to take a closer look at everything this weekend. Been riding the new bike and the Mercian is hanging from the ceiling. Found a box of extra parts, so have a complete second NR crank set (not including the triple), Grandsport pedals, NR rear derailleur (hmm, maybe have the Chorus rear derailleur on the bike since I thought I only had the one NR rear), and NR brakes. Oh, and a complete wheel set with the high flange record hubs, like those on my bike.

Chris

Last edited by crandress; 02-22-13 at 01:24 PM.
crandress is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 01:30 PM
  #6  
crandress 
Crapmaster
Thread Starter
 
crandress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: 1953 Terrot, 1980 Mercian Vincitore, Bridgestone MB3, Atala Corsa GS, Bottecchia Gran Turismo, Raleigh Olympian

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
SO, talk to us about your riding needs and desires. Lots of Mercian fans here, too. SO, post a few photos, eh?
Just getting back in. Need to lose weight and get in shape. Purchased a "comfort" bike to get started, but keep staring up at my stored Mercian Vincitore. Need to lose some pounds before I would hop back on the Mercian though, but thoughts for the future. Love Campy, always have, so would probably go Campy all the way. I will get the Mercian down and get some pics this weekend for you all.

To motivate myself, I started a silly blog, so if you want to know more, please check it out: https://futurecyclist.blogspot.com/

Thanks - Chris
crandress is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 01:32 PM
  #7  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
If it's true that they made a NR triple derailer it's news to me. Why would they when the standard double works fine?

I have a Record triple crank and NR FD on my Peugeot. Both are pre-CPSC. The 36X28 low gear is low enough for me. It's not a mountain bike or loaded tourer.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 01:41 PM
  #8  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 623 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 35 Posts
Chris, in the early seventies Schwinn used a long cage Shimano Crane (pre Dura-Ace) rear derailleur rebadged as a Schwinn-Approved Le Tour GT-300 with the Campy NR triple crank (36-49-54T) and 14-31T freewheel on the P15-9 touring Paramount after having had bad luck with the Campy Gran Turismo RD. Schwinn kept the Shimano RD on an otherwise Campy equipped model even after Campy introduced the Rally RD because they believed the Crane performance was superior in this application.

Just a thought. The long cage Crane/Le Tour GT-300 deraillers can be found on ebay pretty reasonably priced.

__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 01:56 PM
  #9  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,316 Times in 827 Posts
I use a <C> Rally Aka #3450 a spring is around the mounting bolt to rise with the Cog diameter.


somewhat more modern FD, i got a Victory Leisure, the back plate is deeper for bigger differences..

now I use the set with a newer 'race triple' in a 24, 40, 50 configuration ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-22-13 at 02:00 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 02:01 PM
  #10  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
I use a Campy Rally just to keep it all Campy. It works well enough, but not as well as the VGT-Luxe I had on it for a while. Suntours were the only derailers of that era that had slant parallelograms and long cage derailers need slant parallelograms.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 02:07 PM
  #11  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,316 Times in 827 Posts
Got an 80's Euclid , made after Sun Tour's Slant Pantograph Patent Expired ,
where the others the paralelogram moves on vertically oriented pins..

Its been on My Loaded touring Bike ever since,
they do take more cable pull , to do the same 6 speed stroke width.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 02:18 PM
  #12  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Those a beautiful, unlike some of the other Euclid stuff. Too modern for my bikes.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 02:34 PM
  #13  
crandress 
Crapmaster
Thread Starter
 
crandress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: 1953 Terrot, 1980 Mercian Vincitore, Bridgestone MB3, Atala Corsa GS, Bottecchia Gran Turismo, Raleigh Olympian

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 35 Posts
This is great stuff guys, thanks! As I get back into it, I am sure I will have lots more questions.

Chris
crandress is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 03:21 PM
  #14  
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,770

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Here's a stock Campagnolo triple and a stock NR rear running a 14/28 in the rear. Make the chain long enough for the big/big combo.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
CARLTONfs4.jpg (55.6 KB, 228 views)
File Type: jpg
CARLTONfs5.jpg (47.0 KB, 209 views)
File Type: jpg
CARLTONfs1.jpg (74.1 KB, 213 views)
dbakl is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 05:39 PM
  #15  
onespeedbiker
Retro Grouch
 
onespeedbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 2,210

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
Here's a stock Campagnolo triple and a stock NR rear running a 14/28 in the rear. Make the chain long enough for the big/big combo.

Actually your triple is an after market addition; the oem had shorter flutes so the drilling would not be in the flute. I would also like to see the setup in the small\small gear as it appears the max wrap has been exceeded by 4 teeth.
onespeedbiker is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 06:57 PM
  #16  
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,770

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
Actually your triple is an after market addition; the oem had shorter flutes so the drilling would not be in the flute. I would also like to see the setup in the small\small gear as it appears the max wrap has been exceeded by 4 teeth.
Could be: I got it used.

Just like the big/big, I'd never ride in the small/small. Actually works fine, I've done a metric century on that bike.
dbakl is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 08:31 PM
  #17  
LeicaLad 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Work in Asia, now based in Vienna, VA
Posts: 1,734
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Take a look at the crank on Scooper's Paramount above. As described, you can see the drillings and fluting don't overlap. The shorter flutes are how one can tell the original versus the after-market drilled versions. Still, the original is limited to 36t. As Grand Bois points out, that is fine for many, but it is still a lot of weight to only go that low. Changing the rings does help with the weight.

ymmv.
__________________
1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse) (1 owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (The Garage Queen) (crashed out)
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement frame)
1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
(replacing the stolen 1981 Tom Ritchey Everest custom)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)

LeicaLad is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 09:20 PM
  #18  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 20,407

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 973 Post(s)
Liked 379 Times in 278 Posts
Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
Here's a stock Campagnolo triple and a stock NR rear running a 14/28 in the rear. Make the chain long enough for the big/big combo. ...
That is one great-looking bike!

One way to avoid pushing that NR rear too hard is to replace your very correct 52-47-36/14-28 w/ something like 48-44-36/13-28. Same range, 1.5 inches less chain windup required.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 10:09 PM
  #19  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 22,541

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2574 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times in 763 Posts
Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
Take a look at the crank on Scooper's Paramount above. As described, you can see the drillings and fluting don't overlap. The shorter flutes are how one can tell the original versus the after-market drilled versions. Still, the original is limited to 36t. As Grand Bois points out, that is fine for many, but it is still a lot of weight to only go that low.
Jim Merz actually made a 31T ring that fit the factory triple bolt circle, but good luck finding one these days...

JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 02-22-13, 10:33 PM
  #20  
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,770

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by John E View Post
That is one great-looking bike!

One way to avoid pushing that NR rear too hard is to replace your very correct 52-47-36/14-28 w/ something like 48-44-36/13-28. Same range, 1.5 inches less chain windup required.
I've been running a 49 or 50 on my NR cranks since the 70s.
dbakl is offline  
Old 02-23-13, 12:42 AM
  #21  
onespeedbiker
Retro Grouch
 
onespeedbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 2,210

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by John E View Post
That is one great-looking bike!

One way to avoid pushing that NR rear too hard is to replace your very correct 52-47-36/14-28 w/ something like 48-44-36/13-28. Same range, 1.5 inches less chain windup required.
While there's certainly validity to your plan, there is still the issue of the 28t cog, as the NR is rated for a 26t max cog. While many claim they have exceeded 26t, it seems to be hit and miss. Best to check this on the OP's setup first.

Last edited by onespeedbiker; 02-23-13 at 12:45 AM.
onespeedbiker is offline  
Old 02-23-13, 01:21 AM
  #22  
old's'cool
curmudgineer
 
old's'cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago SW burbs
Posts: 4,365

Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
Take a look at the crank on Scooper's Paramount above. As described, you can see the drillings and fluting don't overlap. The shorter flutes are how one can tell the original versus the after-market drilled versions. Still, the original is limited to 36t. As Grand Bois points out, that is fine for many, but it is still a lot of weight to only go that low. Changing the rings does help with the weight.

ymmv.
That's one way of looking at it, but for me it is a big advantage to run a triple with a half-step large and middle combo in order to maximize choice of cruising ratios; I don't need a particularly low, so called "granny" inner ring for the low gears, so something in the high 30s to low 40s is ideal for an inner ring. I don't see the miniscule added weight, never mind the cost, of a front triple, as a deterrent against gaining this added flexibility. A typical 3x6 setup of mine is 52-49-36 and 13-15-17-19-22-26. I rarely use the 36T chainring actually, but it's good to have just in case.
old's'cool is offline  
Old 02-23-13, 01:38 AM
  #23  
puchfinnland
MIKE is my name!
 
puchfinnland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: finland,baltimore
Posts: 2,886

Bikes: hans lutz, , puch mistral ultima,2x Austro Daimler Smoked chrome Ultima,Austro Daimler Mixte,Austro Daimler 531 mixte, flying arrow,F Moser,

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Im about to build a campy mixte triple this summer,
yas its a girly bike

I have not given the deraileurs much thought yet but hoping N.R.
maybe I can swap the cages from a newer campy rear deraileur to make a custom long cage NR!

I got the campy triple arm and chainwheel,

14-28 rear x 52 42 36 front was what was on my mind.
but 36-42-50 is also an option,

I got plenty of chainwheels!!

Last edited by puchfinnland; 02-23-13 at 01:49 AM.
puchfinnland is offline  
Old 02-23-13, 10:13 AM
  #24  
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,770

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
While there's certainly validity to your plan, there is still the issue of the 28t cog, as the NR is rated for a 26t max cog. While many claim they have exceeded 26t, it seems to be hit and miss. Best to check this on the OP's setup first.
A NR rear will handle a 28 no problem. I've been using it on all my bikes since 1972. And I probably have 50-60 bikes (but not all NR).

Here's an original 72 Paramount with the Campagnolo triple, a NR rear and a 14/28 freewheel, same setup as the Carlton. (I added the Campagnolo brakes and switched the rear derailler)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
pchrome.jpg (40.2 KB, 193 views)

Last edited by dbakl; 02-23-13 at 10:18 AM.
dbakl is offline  
Old 02-23-13, 10:26 AM
  #25  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,393

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 145 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1962 Post(s)
Liked 756 Times in 475 Posts
Does the OP need a longer BB Spindle?
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.