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Let's play the "is it a PX10 game?"

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Let's play the "is it a PX10 game?"

Old 03-04-13, 02:17 AM
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echo victor 
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Let's play the "is it a PX10?" game

Hi everybody,

I saw this today on a lawn with a bunch of beach cruisers for sale (and one Raleigh Sport). The paint and decals are beat up, and it's clearly seen a lot, but I picked it up because I'm pretty hopeful. There are a few things that suggest to me that it may be a PX10. If you can help me determine one way or the other, I'd appreciate it. Here's some details with photos:



It's got a sticker on the fork that looks to me like it could have been a Reynolds 531 sticker when it was complete - you can read the "OU" that remain, and those were followed by "RR" (right up until the seller scratched them off when I was asking about them - doh!). From that and the triangular shape of the traces of where the rest of the sticker had been (more visible on the other fork), I'm pretty sure it matched the one visible here: https://cyclespeugeot.com/images/DSC00817.JPG.



Mafac brakes, Nervex lugs:



Inoxydable decal, Nervex Series Professionnel decal, missing frame material sticker:



Stronglight cranks, Campagnolo front derailleur (though I'm not sure it's original):



Simplex rear derailleur (or according to Sheldon, "horrific plastic-meets-metal Simplex deraillieurs"):



Aluminum Rigida rear wheel (front wheel is a replacement Weinmann with rusty spokes):



Other noteworthy bits are that the forks and stays sort of look like they're chromed under the paint (although it might not be), someone replaced the original shifters with Suntour bar-ends, and its light weight. Quickly weighing it at home suggests it's only about 22 lbs. Serial number appears to be 037287, which I think places it as either a 1960 or 1970. Looks like a more thrashed version of the white PX10 here: https://cyclespeugeot.com/PX10ID.html.

Last edited by echo victor; 03-06-13 at 03:02 AM.
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Old 03-04-13, 02:32 AM
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This is a 1960s PX10 without a doubt and even still has the prized Stronglight 63 crankset!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-Stro...p2047675.l2557

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Old 03-04-13, 04:06 AM
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World Championship stripes place the date around 1964...
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Old 03-04-13, 03:04 PM
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Okay, cool. A circa 1964 PX-10. Glad I stopped at the yard sale.

The "World Championship stripes" are the ones on the seat tube above & below the checkerboard decals?
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Old 03-04-13, 05:15 PM
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Great find. What did ya pay for it??
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Old 03-04-13, 06:24 PM
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Major score.



It is still snowing here and you WC guys are already finding bikes...
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Old 03-04-13, 06:25 PM
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Are the bar end shifters Simplex?
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Old 03-04-13, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by echo victor View Post
Okay, cool. A circa 1964 PX-10. Glad I stopped at the yard sale.

The "World Championship stripes" are the ones on the seat tube above & below the checkerboard decals?
World champion stripes are the black, yellow, red, green, blue ones.
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Old 03-04-13, 09:23 PM
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Nice find. Man, the px-10s are coming out of the wood work right now. I love mine more every time I see it.
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Old 03-04-13, 10:09 PM
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+1 on it being a 60's PX-10, considering the shield (vs. the rectangular) Peugeot stickers. There should be a six digit serial number on the frame somewhere.
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Old 03-04-13, 10:34 PM
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Let's play the "is it a PX10 game?
Thanks, but I don't want to play. You already won.
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Old 03-04-13, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
Major score.



It is still snowing here and you WC guys are already finding bikes...
Oh my. PX10's at dern near er'y garage sale. . . Can anyone tell me if "American Pickers" is airing on the West Coast?
(Congrats EV. You scored a major prize! )
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Old 03-04-13, 11:16 PM
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If the bar end shifters are Simplex, they are rare birds and you should treat them well.
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Old 03-04-13, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
If the bar end shifters are Simplex, they are rare birds and you should treat them well.
Suntour, which is functionally the best.

Last edited by rhm; 03-05-13 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 03-05-13, 02:42 AM
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Hey, thanks for all the kudos, guys!

Here in San Diego, it seems like the bike market slows down a bit over the winter, but probably not as much as elsewhere.

andyfloyd, I was able to negotiate the seller to $95. Despite the rough shape of the paint, I thought that was a pretty good deal. The seller wasn't going to come down any further, and he even said, "I think if you clean this up you could probably turn around and sell it on ebay for $250." Actually, I think his guess was a bit conservative...

Grand Bois, the bar end shifters are actually Suntour. It's a little unfortunate that I don't have the original shifters, but I like bar ends, so I'll probably keep these rather than try to find something more authentic.

anixi, yes, the serial number is 037287 (unless I'm misreading it). Six digits as you predicted.

Since this turned out to be a good find, I'll share the short version of the story behind it. My girlfriend was driving the two of us to meet some friends, and I'd just finished telling her that I thought she was taking just about the slowest route possible (yeah, I'm nice like that), and she pointed out this yard sale with 20 or so bikes in front. She stopped and said, "I only saw one of your 'Lance-bikes,' but go ahead and take a look." And of course, once I got the bike she said, "bet you're glad I drove this way now, huh?"

So I've got some serious work to do on the frame with some Soft Scrub, and more importantly I've got to work on the seat post and the stem - both seem pretty well stuck. Otherwise, it's in good mechanical shape.
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Old 03-05-13, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by echo victor View Post
.....
So I've got some serious work to do on the frame with some Soft Scrub, and more importantly I've got to work on the seat post and the stem - both seem pretty well stuck. ...
Ugh.

After disassembly and light cleaning, I would recommend an OA bath for that frame - AFTER you free the post and stem - and there, patience and reserve is your friend. I would make every effort to remove them with time, tapping, and a good penetrating agent. PB Blaster, Kroil or some folks suggest a home-brew ATF concoction which purportedly is even better. "Freeze-off" has worked for some. (Heat works for no one). Excessive force is to be avoided - you can end up bending the stays or seeing them separate from the frame. If worse comes to worse, it's better to sacrifice the components than the frame,but sawing them out should be your last resort.

Good luck - and remember, that bike is worth the effort.
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Last edited by auchencrow; 03-05-13 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 03-05-13, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by echo victor View Post
Hey, thanks for all the kudos, guys!

My girlfriend was driving the two of us to meet some friends, and I'd just finished telling her that I thought she was taking just about the slowest route possible (yeah, I'm nice like that), and she pointed out this yard sale with 20 or so bikes in front. She stopped and said, "I only saw one of your 'Lance-bikes,' but go ahead and take a look." And of course, once I got the bike she said, "bet you're glad I drove this way now, huh?"

So I've got some serious work to do on the frame with some Soft Scrub, and more importantly I've got to work on the seat post and the stem - both seem pretty well stuck. Otherwise, it's in good mechanical shape.
I'd say the most serious work to do is give your "Lance-bike" spotter GF some serious work and luvin'!

Enjoy!
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Old 03-05-13, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by echo victor View Post

Grand Bois, the bar end shifters are actually Suntour. It's a little unfortunate that I don't have the original shifters, but I like bar ends, so I'll probably keep these rather than try to find something more authentic.
I was hoping that they were the super-rare Simplex Retrofriction bar end shifters. I have Suntours on my PX10, too. If you ever decide to go back to the original down tube shifters, they're readily available and cheap.

I just noticed that you had already said that the shifters are Suntour. I'm so embarassed! It annoys the hell out of me when people post without reading the previous posts!

The soft scrub is a good idea. I've used it. I don't know if it contains oxalic acid to kill the rust. Barkeeper's Friend does.
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Old 03-05-13, 01:10 PM
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Great find - congrats!

Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
World Championship stripes place the date around 1964...
AFAIK the rainbow stripes on the Peugeot seat tubes were due to Tommy Simpson's World Championship win on 5th Sept. 1965.

I may be wrong, but for me this PX10 is more likely of 1966/67 vintage (successor crank SL 93 apparently came in late 1967 or 1968).
If the bike still retains its Brooks Professional saddle, usually the standard seat, there might be a chance to find a year code stamped into the rear cantle plate.
Sometimes you can find a date code on the RD or the back side of the brakes.
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Old 03-05-13, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
I was hoping that they were the super-rare Simplex Retrofriction bar end shifters. I have Suntours on my PX10, too. If you ever decide to go back to the original down tube shifters, they're readily available and cheap.

I just noticed that you had already said that the shifters are Suntour. I'm so embarassed! It annoys the hell out of me when people post without reading the previous posts!

The soft scrub is a good idea. I've used it. I don't know if it contains oxalic acid to kill the rust. Barkeeper's Friend does.
I had a set of those shifters and i couldn't shift them to any one.
I had them for sale for ages for 30 euros with no takers.
I ended up selling them with a group of other vintage items for a low price.
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Old 03-05-13, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by qd-s View Post
Great find - congrats!



AFAIK the rainbow stripes on the Peugeot seat tubes were due to Tommy Simpson's World Championship win on 5th Sept. 1965.

I may be wrong, but for me this PX10 is more likely of 1966/67 vintage (successor crank SL 93 apparently came in late 1967 or 1968).
If the bike still retains its Brooks Professional saddle, usually the standard seat, there might be a chance to find a year code stamped into the rear cantle plate.
Sometimes you can find a date code on the RD or the back side of the brakes.
I can't put my finger on why, but i would say this was towards late 60s as well.
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Old 03-06-13, 03:07 AM
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Thanks for the ideas, Auchen. I've picked up some PB Blaster, so that's my next step. You think that an OA bath is necessary? I was hoping to get most of the rust off with vinegar (tried that recently with a Fuji, and it worked well - although some places where the paint was exposed to the vinegar seem to have gotten a little cloudy).

I'll take a look at Barkeeper's Friend, Grand Bois. Thanks.

Sadly, the saddle has been replaced, qd-s, but I'll see if I can find a code on the brakes or something. For now I'll just call it "mid 60s."

I'm guessing I'll want to widen and lower the gearing a bit - anyone want to recommend a good 5 speed freewheel with that in mind? (I could see going up to a 34 large sprocket in the rear, but I don't think that megarange is available in 5 speeds... and it would look out of place). How about a good source for a 38t chainring (since I hear that's as small as I can get on this crankset)?

(Wow - just realized that my original title should have been Let's play the "is it a PX10?" game - I have to remember to re-read my late night posts before submitting.)
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Old 03-06-13, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by echo victor View Post
Thanks for the ideas, Auchen. I've picked up some PB Blaster, so that's my next step. You think that an OA bath is necessary? I was hoping to get most of the rust off with vinegar (tried that recently with a Fuji, and it worked well - although some places where the paint was exposed to the vinegar seem to have gotten a little cloudy)......
I recommend a bath because the stuck stem and post, and some bloom of rust through the paint indicates long-term exposure to the elements, so I would expect all of the interior surfaces to have rust too. - Though I think it's superficial, it's always important to address r-u-s-t effectively. (Follow up the bath with the usual dose of Frame-Saver or T-15 Boeshield internally, and a liberal application of wax externally.)

The more worrisome thing E.V., is the stuck stem and post: I'll light a candle for you, that they come out OK. MOST of the time, they will be OK, but you have to accept that there is a chance they will not... Just be patient and give it your level-best.

-I hope some day soon to see a new post from you, trumpeting your victory over them.
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Old 03-07-13, 05:52 PM
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That's a well nice PX10! According to the Peugeot badges, it was build between 1964 and ~ 1970. As it still bears the original rear derailleur, you can have a look at the inner cage whether there's a date code stamped in.

Though Sheldon was not very fond of these metal/plastic Simplex derailleurs, they are a lot better than he said. Your's is an early Simplex Criterium, which in fact is the same design as the famous SuperLJ, and it works very fine.

The paint might not look too good right know, but chances are it's still in good condition. Try how much of the grease and rust comes off by using car polish first.

I was astonished myself about the results possible when rebuilding my 1962 Peugeot PA 10. This is how it looked before...



... and this is the final result:

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Old 03-09-13, 02:52 AM
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Hey, Auchen, listen for the trumpets. With the help of some PB Blaster and a pretty significant amount of brute force, I have succeeded in removing both the stem and seat post that were stuck.

If the seat post is the original Simplex, would it say "Simplex" on it somewhere? It turns out that the stem is an Ambrosio Champion, and is listed on VeloBase as 22.2 mm, while the PX-10's steerer is designed for 22.0 mm. So I'm guessing that's part of why it was challenging to remove.

The concerns I have about an OA bath are the paint, the chrome, and the decals. I expect the paint and probably even the chrome might be fine. But should I expect that any decals above the clear coat would be lost in the bath, for instance, the Inoxydable or Nervex Series Professionnel decals?

Daniel, thanks for the info about the Simplex Criterium. Your PA 10 looks great - I'll be sure to try the car polish.
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