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Building up a 3sp IGH bike. Need opinions on cable routing

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Building up a 3sp IGH bike. Need opinions on cable routing

Old 03-23-13, 09:28 PM
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Matariki
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Building up a 3sp IGH bike. Need opinions on cable routing

I have a 79 Nishiki frameset that I am building up as a 3 speed IGH bike for my wife. I plan to braze on some cable routing loops on the top tube for the rear brake cable and am contemplating adding some more for the hub cabling. My original plan was to add a cable stop to the underside of the top tube and then route the bare shift cable from there to a seat tube pulley and then down to the hub - pretty much the traditional English way. Today when I was pondering the positions of the braze-ons, I started to wonder whether I should consider other arrangements. So here's some possibilities - which would you do:

1. Same as the traditional scheme except brazing on a pulley boss on the seat tube so I don't have to use a clamp on. If I do this, what sort of angle am I after?

2. Brazing a cable stop to the underside of the down tube near the head tube. Then running a bare cable either over or under the bottom bracket to the hub.

3. Same as 2 but with an additional cable stop near the bottom bracket and then housed cable to another stop near the hub.

4. Running housed cable the whole way to the hub through brazed on cable loops on the underside of the down tube.

Also, If anyone has done any of the above and has pics, I would appreciate seeing them.

Thanks

Last edited by Matariki; 03-24-13 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 03-24-13, 05:14 AM
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Look at the bike in this thread. It was professionally designed like your option 1.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ambert+tourist
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Old 03-24-13, 05:52 AM
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I prefer the bare cable to the pulley along the top tube, it does require a clamp on fulcrum point. It has come in handy a couple of times being able to pull the cable to get the bike to shift when it was being cantankerous. The only concern I have with the full length housing cable routing is the amount of friction on the cable. All three methods have been used in the past so choose the one that is the best for you.

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Old 03-24-13, 06:21 AM
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I like the classic look of the bare cable and the pulley near the seat cluster. I also like the brazed on pulley boss but I don't like the line that the cable follows on the Lambert (otherwise a beautiful bike). Over in the framebuilders forum, Andrew Stewart has posted some pictures of cable guides brazed to small sections of 1/4 inch tubing to get their placement exactly where he wants them. Since you're doing the brazing yourself, you might consider a similar solution to put the pulley right where the cable will run exactly parallel to the toptube and seatstay.
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Old 03-24-13, 06:58 AM
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The IGH shifter is just another index shifter and you can run your shift cable just like you would for a derailer if you want to. My Raleigh Competition is set up that way and it has worked great for a couple of years. I also have a bike that I converted to a 3 speed using a fulcrum clip and steel pulley for a vintage look. One way works no better than the other.
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Old 03-24-13, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mparker326 View Post
Look at the bike in this thread. It was professionally designed like your option 1.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ambert+tourist
Thanks much. The pic of that beauty really helped me visualize the set up.
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Old 03-24-13, 09:20 AM
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I have bikes in which the routing is done a few different ways:

Raleigh Lenton Tourist w/ braze-on pulley: You can see the pulley is fairly high up on the seat tube, so the gear cable follows the path of the top tube:


1949 Raleigh Clubman w/ clamp-on pulley: Can't get these as high as the braze-on mounts, so cable is angled down a bit:


1975 Raleigh Super Course MkII w/ 5-speed S-A hub: I'm using a bar-end shifter and route the gear cable on the down tube, through the braze-on cable guide at the BB, and to the hub. The cable comes out fairly wide of the chainstay, and I'll hit it with my heel every now and then, but not a big deal. It would have been too sharp of an angle to route the cable through that stop on the chain stay:
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Old 03-24-13, 10:44 AM
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I built up my Viscount with an S3X hub and ran the cable along the downtube and chainstay:



It works well, but occasionally the heel of my shoe snags on the shift cable. This only happens with my bulkier winter shoes, though. Running the cable along the toptube and seat stay would avoid this.
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Old 03-24-13, 11:13 AM
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I like a top tube mounted thumbie with full housing down the seat stay to the covered arm part which has a stop at the top end.
Only then need one guide loop at the seat tube corner. Leave some slack to the cable housing behind that. It's one less dorky cable cluttering the front.

The chain stay option is the worst IMO.
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Old 03-24-13, 11:50 AM
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rhm hates it and gives some good reason but I like it along the down tube and chainstay. FWIW, Pashley does the same way too on their Clubman.
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Old 03-24-13, 12:25 PM
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If you don't kick the cable pedaling, the chain stay route , should be easier if converting a Road frame..

the seat tube/top tube located,roller, cable along the top tube, down the seat stay is the traditional
set-up on old 3 speeds..

eliminates heel plucking the cable..

a step through, ladies bike presents different set up situations ..

using wider 'Q' cranks may help the heel clearance..

Brazing on housing stops I'd go with a pair along the top tube with the rear brake, and
run it Down the seat-stay , much like some Cyclocross Builders
run those rear derailleur cables/..

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-24-13 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 03-24-13, 12:47 PM
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What kind of IGH are you planning to use and how does the cable enter the hub? The old Sturmey Archer hubs (not sure of the new) doesn't care what angle the shift cable is routed. My Shimano Nexus Inter 8 requires the cable to enter the hub from the front and underneath the chainstay.
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Old 03-24-13, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Velognome View Post
rhm hates it and gives some good reason but I like it along the down tube and chainstay. FWIW, Pashley does the same way too on their Clubman.

I do not hate it. In the conversation to which you allude, the question was: which is better, top tube or downtube cable routing? If that is the question, the answer is: top tube. That is all. That is the answer to that question.

Different questions get different answers. How much better is it? A little. Does it really matter? No. If I were building up a bike that had guides at the bottom bracket anyway, which would I do? Top tube. Why? Because it is better.

A brazed on pulley mount is nice but gives no real advantage. The fulcrum clip must be moveable. I would suggest to the original poster that the clamped on pulley is good enough. A three speed conversion does not really require any brazing at all.
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Old 03-24-13, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
What kind of IGH are you planning to use and how does the cable enter the hub? The old Sturmey Archer hubs (not sure of the new) doesn't care what angle the shift cable is routed. My Shimano Nexus Inter 8 requires the cable to enter the hub from the front and underneath the chainstay.

That is a good point. With different axle washers you could do a top tube cable route, but I haven't been able to find the correct washers.
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Old 03-25-13, 11:04 AM
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Thanks for the great ideas.

Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I have bikes in which the routing is done a few different ways:

Raleigh Lenton Tourist w/ braze-on pulley: You can see the pulley is fairly high up on the seat tube, so the gear cable follows the path of the top tube
Ths set up has a small tab brazed to the underside of the lug. A bolt goes through it to affix the pulley. I actually like this better than the boss brazed on to the seat tube. I think this is my number 1 option.

Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I built up my Viscount with an S3X hub and ran the cable along the downtube and chainstay:
This is the way my cable is routed on my 73 Sports. It works but I have to fiddle more with it when I move the wheel.

Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Brazing on housing stops I'd go with a pair along the top tube with the rear brake, and
run it Down the seat-stay , much like some Cyclocross Builders
run those rear derailleur cables/..
I was planning on housed brake cable along the top tube, but bare shift cable. I do have some double cable stops that I could use. I was planning on using the old style nut on the axle instead of that plastic covered steel bracket so I would have to figure that out. I'll have to give this some thought.

Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
What kind of IGH are you planning to use and how does the cable enter the hub? The old Sturmey Archer hubs (not sure of the new) doesn't care what angle the shift cable is routed. My Shimano Nexus Inter 8 requires the cable to enter the hub from the front and underneath the chainstay.
I will be using a new S-A SFR-3. I can run the cable from either the seat stay or the chain stay.

Originally Posted by rhm View Post
: If I were building up a bike that had guides at the bottom bracket anyway, which would I do? Top tube. Why? Because it is better.

A brazed on pulley mount is nice but gives no real advantage. The fulcrum clip must be moveable. I would suggest to the original poster that the clamped on pulley is good enough. A three speed conversion does not really require any brazing at all.
Yes, as I said above I think that routing along the chainstay is slightly more troublesome when the wheel position is adjusted so I am leaning toward top tub mount. Why does the fulcrum clip need to be movable? I can see that the clip and pulley need to work together, but I can't recall every moving a fulcrum clip once I put it where I thought it should go. I agree that I could use clamp ons but I figured that since the frame is bare steel and I will be brazing on brake cable routing that I would do it for the shift cable as well. And then there's my angst about clamping things over new paint.

Thanks much for all of the advice. It's given me a bunch to think about. I plan to do some mock ups and then make the final decision.
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Old 03-25-13, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Matariki View Post
Why does the fulcrum clip need to be movable? I can see that the clip and pulley need to work together, but I can't recall every moving a fulcrum clip once I put it where I thought it should go.
It only needs to be movable if you're using one of the OEM shift cables, where the barrel adjuster is permanently affixed to the cable. With this type of cable, the overall length is fixed, so any accommodation for cable slack, changing cog size, etc., needs to be made at the fulcrum clip. With the more modern clamp-on type barrel adjusters, e.g.:



you can simply loosen the clamp to take up any slack or other needed changes.
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Old 03-25-13, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
It only needs to be movable if you're using one of the OEM shift cables, where the barrel adjuster is permanently affixed to the cable. With this type of cable, the overall length is fixed, so any accommodation for cable slack, changing cog size, etc., needs to be made at the fulcrum clip. With the more modern clamp-on type barrel adjusters, e.g.:



you can simply loosen the clamp to take up any slack or other needed changes.
True. But it is easier to move the fulcrum.
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Old 03-26-13, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
It only needs to be movable if you're using one of the OEM shift cables, where the barrel adjuster is permanently affixed to the cable. With this type of cable, the overall length is fixed, so any accommodation for cable slack, changing cog size, etc., needs to be made at the fulcrum clip. With the more modern clamp-on type barrel adjusters, e.g.:
you can simply loosen the clamp to take up any slack or other needed changes.
Thanks,

I came to this thought myself last night while playing with the frame and various clamp-on fittings. I recalled making up a cable for my Sports the same length as the old cable and then having to position the fulcrum clip to suit. The new hub will come with one of these ugly cable ends and I reckon I will use it. I have one on my 5 sp IGH and although I don't like it, I haven't been motivated to change it yet.
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Old 03-26-13, 04:55 PM
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I've recently found these clips, and I'm using them on a couple of bikes with success, and they look kinda retro too.



They seem to hold tight and stay where you put them. I can sell them for $12 Canadian plus postage for a pack of three. That's competitive with the one vendor on line I found that carries them.
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Old 07-21-13, 01:22 PM
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Resurrecting my thread to show the final result.

First, Thanks for all of the advice.

So after playing with a lot of mockups, I decided to braze 2 double barrel cable stopsto the bottom of the top tube. One for the shift cable and the other for the rear brake. I brazed a single stop to the right seat stay close to the brake bridge. A small piece of housing allows the cable to turn the corner. Works great and IMO looks good too.


Last edited by Matariki; 07-21-13 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 07-21-13, 08:20 PM
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You have to adjust the cable length instead of moving a fulcrum, but that's okay because moving a fulcrum wouldl destroy your new paint. I never move the fulcrum on my 3 speed for that reason.
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