Chombi

It's a possibility then that it's some sort of internal brazing done on it if there is almost zero evidence of any kind of fillet at the joint seams. Gitane and Peugeot made TT frames in the later 80's, I believe with lugless construction too. Maybe you should check those out. A couple of Peugeot TT framed bikes had been on sale on Ebay for some time. They might still be there to look at.... I think a forum member is actually the seller of those bikes.....

Chombi

Meper

I don't know how the frame-restorer will change the rear spacing from 125 to 130mm....probably by "Cold bending" the frame......and not by stripping it? :-) ......we will see. I just told them that I want 130mm to be able to use a 10 speed cassette wheel.

RobbieTunes

Mine was 126 and it easily accepts 130mm without too much knuckle-busting.

unworthy1

I thought you were having the frame and fork repainted...apparently not by the guy who's got it now. Anyway, he will just cold-set it and that doesn't require him to strip any paint or chrome...but he might have an opinion about the thing: what the tubing is, how it's built, etc. so pick his brain.

Meper

Yes, the painting will be another place. The chrome fork and frame will be sanded and several layers of "fluid". They have painted bikes the last 40-50 years and so. Here are some frames they have painted: https://www.dibberndesign.dk/cykel-galleri.html , I will ask the bike repair shop if they have an idea of what tubes etc. the frame is made of. I requires the repair person is in the shop when I pick up the frame......we will see. In the old days it was very common the buy the raw frame at the bike shop and then go to the paint shop afterwards and select a personal painting. I just select one color and with no decals.

georges1

The in external was used from the 80's till the mid-late 90's before Motobecane went all aluminium and carbon. Peugeot also had inexternal brazed frames but also had team line top of the range steel MTB frames that were in external welded for the columbus cyber frame and tig welded for the genius MTB frame, for the top of the range steel road frames, there was the team line with the Neuron set of columbus tubes which was handbrazed with lugs, the Brain which was filet brazed and the Genius set of columbus tubes which was tig welded but was available with the festina polished welds finish.Gitane had made some nice frames in the mid late 90's was one a genius frame which was handbrazed and which had nice lugs then they made a nemo tig welded frame with a carbon fork which was equipped with dura ace 7700 or 7900.

Meper

I am a bit closer to what the frame is. It was a Danish brand and the bike was called "Kildemoes dykker" or translated "Kildemoes diver" and was original sold with a 650c fork. I found some Pictures which shows the bike with its original painting and labels. As far I can see the tubes are called 500 Chrome-Moly and on the label I think it is written "French tubes". Maybe some of you know better what kind of tubes it is. Probably some "mid class" tubes?

On the Pictures I found the bike has been converted to a single speed.

20grit

Reynolds 500 was a seamed, plain-gauge tubeset. From what I can see of your sticker and reading, the bike is probably only those tubes in the main triangle, with some lesser tubes in your stays. Someone might have to correct me on this, but is 501 just a plain gauge version of 501?

Meper

Ok......so OK material but not as light as it could be. I read another place that 500 is 1mm and 501 is butted down to 0.8mm in the middle? .....but Reynolds is not French....so maybe as you say.....the triangle is Reynolds......and the rest French tubes maybe? I think the frame is OK for my first project.....as least better than Hi-Tensile steel?

Meper

I found this "Reynolds table": https://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/rey...bing-sizes.jpg

Meper

I just realize what is written on the "Tube label": Reynolds, 500, Chrome Moly, Frame tubes ......and not "French tubes" .....but the rear of the bike frame could be french......at least the dropouts.....

unworthy1

I think you nailed it for yourself: Kildemoes (and not something any of us would ever have found, I'd bet!)
Looks like a Reynolds 500 frame (that's plain-guage Cr-Mo tube offered just as a 3-main-tube set, so the stays might be "anything else") with Vitus drop-outs...I don't think anything else is "French" on it.

Meper

Both the bike repair person and the paint person knew the frame and when I got home I knew what to "goggle" to find out what kind of tubes etc. "Kildemoes" is known for making good solid bikes which last for many years. I can probably assume that the assembly of the frame is fine. One thing is the material......another is how it is assembled? Some of the components I have for the frame is: Fulcrum Quattro Wheels, SRAM 10 speed XO flat bar trigger, SRAM Force "rear shifter", SRAM 1070 cassette, Miche BB and crank. Do you think these componets are too good for such a frame......or does it "sound" as a good match?

Chombi

Despite what some people think, TT bikes came in many levels of quality. Some think that the more focused use bike usually comes with the best frame tubing and component groups like Modolo Kronos or Campy C-record/Delta gruppos, but makers like Gitane made them with quite humble frame tubing and component specs....Heck, somebody had to build bikes that TT newbes had to start on.....
If it turns out that your frame tubes are at least butted CrMo or Manganese alloy tubing, I suspect that the frame was then meant as a mid level model TT bike. The top of the line TT bikes will usually sport more distinctive lugs from big makers like Cinelli, if they have lugs, and Campagnolo made dropout. I think Vitus frame parts like dropouts were usually used by companies outside of France as a lower cost alternative to Campagnolo stuff.

Chombi

Meper

Yes, but now I know that it is as least something Reynolds would put their name on :-) ....and as it was sold by a Classic brand (Kildemoes) the quality should be ok. I like the geometri of the frame so I can post Pictures when the bike is ready......if I can find the thread when times comes :-)

jimmuller 

I'm still wondering if that frame is virtuous.

Meper

Probably only the rear dropouts..........are "vi(r)tuous".......most of the rest are "reynoldous"......both frame and cromed fork will end out being silver-gray metallic.

Meper

Here is what it ended up with. The Vitus that was not a Vitus but a "Børge Kildemoes" (Danish brand). The only Vitus was the rear drop outs........

20grit

How is the single ring up front working out for you?

Meper

The single ring is working perfect. I can use all 10 gears on the cassette without any troubles. The drive train is very stiff. I can stand up and apply all the force I have and I have the feeling that all the power is converted to speed. The shifting with the SRAM XO 10 speed micro shifter also works very well with the rear derailleur (SRAM Force). Very little break force is needed with the Ultregra breaks calibres. I needed some thinner cables that the ones supplied with the Shimano break levers on the flat bar so they were probably not meant to be used together.......but it works. Even with a thin break cable no "ferrules" is needed on the break calibres (I think they are designed that way). I can recommend the Blackspire Track rings......also to be used for street 10 speed. They are made of 7075-T6 aluminium and "CNC'ed" and very solid. There are no "cut outs" on the "rear" side of the ring so a bit heavy but very strong. The original Miche ring have "cut outs" to save weight.