Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Vitus TT steel frame

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Vitus TT steel frame

Old 04-02-13, 11:49 AM
  #1  
Meper
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denmark
Posts: 52

Bikes: Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Vitus TT steel frame

I am going to build a bike on this Vitus TT frame. I am interested in if somebody knows which tubes are used and also how the tubes are assempled (e.g. Tig welded?). The fork has Tecnotrat written on the dropouts and I don't know if the fork was inserted later. I got the frame and fork as showed and will build a 10 speed flat bar bike. The frame is at a repair show to have the rear drop out space changed from 125 to 130mm and after this the frame and fork will be repainted. The Pinarello decals has been removed as it has never been a Pinarello. I can't give further information before I get the frame back (Pictures, Id number etc.).

Attached Images
Meper is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 11:59 AM
  #2  
20grit
Curmudgeon in Training
 
20grit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rural Retreat, VA
Posts: 1,962

Bikes: 1974 Gazelle Champion Mondial, 2010 Cannondale Trail SL, 1988 Peugeot Nice, 1992ish Stumpjumper Comp,1990's Schwinn Moab

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Well, I am fairly certain that's not a Vitus produced frame. I've been wrong before. It could be a Vitus tubed bike, built by someone else. French threading would be an indicator of origins at a builder's shop that could have used vitus tubes.

Does something about the bike give you an indication of some Vitus properties??
20grit is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:01 PM
  #3  
Lenton58 
Senior Member
 
Lenton58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Sendai, Japan: Tohoku region (Northern Honshu))
Posts: 1,675

Bikes: Vitus 979, Simplon 4-Star (Romani), Woodrup Giro, Gazelle AB, Dawes Atlantis

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 5 Posts
Whatever it is, I sure like the color!!
__________________
Vitus 979, Simplon 4 Star, Gazelle Champion Mondial, Woodrup Giro, Dawes Atlantis
Lenton58 is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:02 PM
  #4  
Meper
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denmark
Posts: 52

Bikes: Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 20grit View Post
Well, I am fairly certain that's not a Vitus produced frame. I've been wrong before. It could be a Vitus tubed bike, built by someone else. French threading would be an indicator of origins at a builder's shop that could have used vitus tubes.

Does something about the bike give you an indication of some Vitus properties??
Yes, on one of the rear dropouts is written "Virtus" ...and it was sold as a Virtus TT/Pursuit frame.
Meper is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:14 PM
  #5  
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Posts: 5,556

Bikes: blue ones.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
At first, you write Vitus, and then Virtus. Get a grip, dude. Just copy what's on the frame, don't just rattle your keyboard and see what falls out if you're looking for a good opinion on the provenance of your frame. Pics help too.
Italuminium is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:24 PM
  #6  
Meper
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denmark
Posts: 52

Bikes: Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Italuminium View Post
At first, you write Vitus, and then Virtus. Get a grip, dude. Just copy what's on the frame, don't just rattle your keyboard and see what falls out if you're looking for a good opinion on the provenance of your frame. Pics help too.
Sorry :-) "Vitus" is written.........I often write the "other" name because the fingers just does that on the keyboard. When I get the frame back from the repair shop I can update with more pictures.
Meper is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:25 PM
  #7  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,730
Mentioned: 604 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4477 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,545 Times in 1,618 Posts
The picture resolution isn't adequate to discern the construction at the head tubes other than to say that they did use cut down lugs. The presence of Vitus dropouts does not necessarily mean the tubing is Vitus.

Last edited by T-Mar; 04-02-13 at 12:32 PM.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:27 PM
  #8  
wintermute
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 449

Bikes: 1980 Motobecane Grand Jubile, 1986 Kuwahara ATB, 2006 Bianchi Volpe, 2016 Salsa Fargo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 13 Posts
C'mon, don't harass the newbie.

Welcome aboard!! Vitus manufactured steel tubing and lugs for different bike companies. For instance, late-70's, early 80's Motobecanes were built with Vitus tubing, but as far as I know, not Vitus lugs. Although hard to tell from your photos, the frame appears to be of lugged/brazed construction, not welded (we like that around here). Interesting that a TT-style frame has rear rack braze-ons - may provide a clue to a more knowledgable person.

Post more photos of the frame, including the serial number under the bottom bracket. Also, like 20grit said, see if the bottom bracket has French threading (i.e., the "left", non-drive side has conventional righty-tighty/lefty-loosey threading).
wintermute is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:29 PM
  #9  
Meper
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denmark
Posts: 52

Bikes: Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The picture resolution isn't adequate to discern the construction at the head tubnes other than to say that they did use cut down lugs. The presence of Vitus dropouts does not necessarily mean the tubing is Vitus.
I know the pictures are bad (not taken by me but by the person I got it from). I can supply with much better pictures when I get the frame back. But when making a goggle search on "Vitus TT" I have not found a similar construction yet.
Meper is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:34 PM
  #10  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,859
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 486 Times in 398 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The picture resolution isn't adequate to discern the construction at the head tubnes other than to say that they did use cut down lugs. The presence of Vitus dropouts does not necessarily mean the tubing is Vitus.
true, and I'd add that mainly French makes used Vitus dropouts, there are a few well-known exceptions.
I next wonder about the BB: if that's a Campy BB unit, I don't think it was available in FR threading...however, that style (sometimes called Thun) was also sold by a couple other makers (like Thun, for one). I'd bet on it being BSC or Italian BB threading.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:35 PM
  #11  
Meper
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denmark
Posts: 52

Bikes: Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
C'mon, don't harass the newbie.

Welcome aboard!! Vitus manufactured steel tubing and lugs for different bike companies. For instance, late-70's, early 80's Motobecanes were built with Vitus tubing, but as far as I know, not Vitus lugs. Although hard to tell from your photos, the frame appears to be of lugged/brazed construction, not welded (we like that around here). Interesting that a TT-style frame has rear rack braze-ons - may provide a clue to a more knowledgable person.

Post more photos of the frame, including the serial number under the bottom bracket. Also, like 20grit said, see if the bottom bracket has French threading (i.e., the "left", non-drive side has conventional righty-tighty/lefty-loosey threading).
I have removed the Campagnolo bottom bracket and is it "English" BSA (ISO Square). It will be refit with a Miche Primato 53t crank and bracket. The number and more pictures I can provide when I get the frame back from the bike repair shop.
Meper is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:46 PM
  #12  
Mjm6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 93

Bikes: 1991 Klein Quantum, 1990 Kestrel MXZ, Eddie Mercks Corsa 01

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Italuminium View Post
...Get a grip, dude. ...
Completely uncalled for in the C&V forum. Cut him some slack please.
Mjm6 is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:49 PM
  #13  
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Posts: 5,556

Bikes: blue ones.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Meper View Post
Sorry :-) "Vitus" is written.........I often write the "other" name because the fingers just does that on the keyboard. When I get the frame back from the repair shop I can update with more pictures.

ok, then. As you probably know by now Vitus is a major French tubing label. BTW, cool frame. sorry if my initial reply was a little harsh.
Italuminium is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:56 PM
  #14  
Meper
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denmark
Posts: 52

Bikes: Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As I remember the Id no. is not written on the BB and there has been made "cut outs/tunnel" in the BB so the inner wires can come though. A picture would be better. The frame is now at an old famous Danish bike/repair shop: https://refurbs.blogspot.dk/2010/06/i...e-factory.html
Meper is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:59 PM
  #15  
Conan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mjm6 View Post
Completely uncalled for in the C&V forum. Cut him some slack please.
Ha, wow. God forbid someone should forget 1 letter in a word. The audacity
Conan is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 02:31 PM
  #16  
20grit
Curmudgeon in Training
 
20grit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rural Retreat, VA
Posts: 1,962

Bikes: 1974 Gazelle Champion Mondial, 2010 Cannondale Trail SL, 1988 Peugeot Nice, 1992ish Stumpjumper Comp,1990's Schwinn Moab

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
The rear dropout looks like this one on VeloBase: https://velobase.com/ViewFramePart.as...6-992ae4b68ff9
The dropouts on the fork don't appear to be from that same set. It could just be that the pictures aren't showing me enough detail. I guess we'll have to wait until it's back from the shop for that.

I find it odd that there appears to be no brake cable routing, be it brazed on or internal on a TT/Pursuit frame.
20grit is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 02:41 PM
  #17  
Meper
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denmark
Posts: 52

Bikes: Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 20grit View Post
The rear dropout looks like this one on VeloBase: https://velobase.com/ViewFramePart.as...6-992ae4b68ff9
The dropouts on the fork don't appear to be from that same set. It could just be that the pictures aren't showing me enough detail. I guess we'll have to wait until it's back from the shop for that.

I find it odd that there appears to be no brake cable routing, be it brazed on or internal on a TT/Pursuit frame.
Yes, the "Vitus" is written the same place on the rear dropouts......I remember this. And I think you are right that the fork is not the "original" for the frame. It seems to be an ok one.....approx. 750g in weight and with "Tecnotrat" written on the dropouts.......so an Italian fork. About the rear brake cable.......on the upper steel tube (the one which curves) and where you would let the rear brake cable run along there are three small holes on the underside of the tube. This could be a "preparation" for attaching a rear brake cable?
Meper is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 03:06 PM
  #18  
Chombi
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,138

Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 26 Times in 21 Posts
Vitus DOs does not necessarily mean Vitus tubing on the frame. I've seen Mercier frames from the 80's that had Vitus dropouts, but the frame tubing was Columbus... Strange sounding mix but French bike manufacturers did use Columbus tubing for some of their top models back then....
I believe Vitus did mark their Supervitus 980 tubing in some areas. but the one I can remember for sure is the "SV980" tubing mark on the steerer tube of my Vitus Carbone. Does not help you as you noted the fork is not original on your frameset, but I'll see if I can find any marks on my Peugeot PSV's frame and tell you where you might look for them.....

Chombi
Chombi is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 03:39 PM
  #19  
shoota 
Senior Member
 
shoota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 7,797
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1711 Post(s)
Liked 499 Times in 345 Posts
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
Ha, wow. God forbid someone should forget 1 letter in a word. The audacity
Technically he added 1 letter.
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
shoota is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 03:41 PM
  #20  
Meper
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denmark
Posts: 52

Bikes: Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
Vitus DOs does not necessarily mean Vitus tubing on the frame. I've seen Mercier frames from the 80's that had Vitus dropouts, but the frame tubing was Columbus... Strange sounding mix but French bike manufacturers did use Columbus tubing for some of their top models back then....
I believe Vitus did mark their Supervitus 980 tubing in some areas. but the one I can remember for sure is the "SV980" tubing mark on the steerer tube of my Vitus Carbone. Does not help you as you noted the fork is not original on your frameset, but I'll see if I can find any marks on my Peugeot PSV's frame and tell you where you might look for them.....

Chombi
OK, so all we know is that the rear dropouts are Vitus. If I get the weight of the frame it may tell something and maybe also the frame number? ......could the frame original have been made for a rear 700c and a front 650c? ......the "Teconotrat" fork is for a 700c wheel. There are no other writings on the frame other than "Vitus" and the Frame no. id. Can it be a brazed frame even that in some places there seems to be no lugs?
Meper is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 05:13 PM
  #21  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,859
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 486 Times in 398 Posts
yes, that's typically done with steel tubing when the angles are such that factory-made lugs won't work. The technique is called "fillet-brazed" in the US, "bronze-welded" in the UK...in more recent times the builder might use TIG-welding if the tubing was suitable for that.
The Technotrat fork is a bit odd: that brand shows up mainly in lower-end (Falck tubing) frames made in Italy for the Australian market. Was this bike always in Denmark?

Last edited by unworthy1; 04-02-13 at 05:20 PM.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 05:16 PM
  #22  
Chombi
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,138

Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 26 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
yes, that's typically done with steel tubing when the angles are such that factory-made lugs won't work. The technique is called "fillet-brazed" in the US, "bronze-welded" in the UK...in more recent times the builder might use TIG-welding if the tubing was suitable for that.
There's also internal lugless brazing as was done extensively by Peugeot with their Carbolite and HLE frames in the 80's. It resulted in very clean/strong/reliable frame construction, even though it was just used on mainly their lower end bikes of that time....

Chombi
Chombi is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 05:28 PM
  #23  
Meper
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denmark
Posts: 52

Bikes: Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If it is "fillet-brazed" you should be able to see the "fillings"? ......"rounded" in the corners" ......it seems not to be in this frame. TIG-welding is with higher temperatures than brazing? ....the BB.....here lugs has been used. But it is just "straight" lugs.....no "arts" made on this frame :-) .....I got the message that the frame has been in a celler for maybe 15-20 years.
Meper is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 05:32 PM
  #24  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,386 Times in 895 Posts
Originally Posted by Italuminium View Post
ok, then. As you probably know by now Vitus is a major French tubing label. BTW, cool frame. sorry if my initial reply was a little harsh.
Nice to have you back. The evil twin wasn't nearly as fun.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 05:37 PM
  #25  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,859
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 486 Times in 398 Posts
Chombi is right, and there's the other technique that Motobecane used that they called "in-external brazing"... they are all brazing techniques using bronze alloys...not what a welder would call "welding" since the parent material is never molten.
Yes, you'd see the "fillet" in the joint if it was traditional fillet-brazing, a master brazer can make it very tidy and smooth, but with the Peugeot and Moto techniques there really isn't any visible "bead" on the outside joint.
I did notice that the BB shell has boring straight-cut sockets, and that's usually the mark of a cheap(er) frame...let's see what your frame-restorer thinks of it, he'll have it completely stripped and will have seen it "naked".
unworthy1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.