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Guesses about this pink bike's identity? (several photos)

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Guesses about this pink bike's identity? (several photos)

Old 04-08-13, 12:52 AM
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echo victor 
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Guesses about this pink bike's identity? (several photos)

Hi all,

I was interested in this bike mostly because the price was quite low, and it has Suntour Cyclone components which I was thinking of moving to another bike. But I suspect it may be nicer than the Barbie pink rattle-can paint job makes it seem.

The rather sad story of the repaint as conveyed to me by the seller: a guy he knows decided to paint the bike pink for his girlfriend... and only after doing so and giving it to her did he discover that a ~59 cm frame is much too large for her. And to give you an idea about the noteworthy job he did: even the shifter cables are pink - he didn't remove any components, and there is a little over spray here and there.

That said, it might actually be a pretty decent bike under the Tammy Faye makeup. The group appears to be original, it has a brazed on chain hanger on the right seat stay, it has Suntour Pro dropouts (front at least), and it appears that the front fork was originally at least partially chromed. Also, my luggage scale reads it at about 23 - 23.5 lbs (for a 59-60 cm frame). And the seat post is about 27 mm diameter, maybe slightly over based on my cheap analog caliper, and I've read that's a pretty good indicator of butted chromoly or equivalent.

So with that info, and the photos below, does anyone want to hazard a guess as to what this might be? I'm hoping I might be able to strip a little paint and find remnants of decals, and if I'm successful I'll post it.

The serial number on the BB appears to be EH36984.


Not even sure Barbie would ride this...


Concave seat stay caps


Somewhat interesting front lugs and pump peg (and a replacement headset, I believe)


SunTour Cyclone brake levers


Sakae Custom bar


SunTour PRO drop outs


You can see the chain hanger here


Cyclone RD


Serial number on the BB: EH36984


Requisite crank shot

Thanks!
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Old 04-08-13, 01:06 AM
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It looks like an older Centurion to me! My newer one has a slightly different front lug, but it utilizes a 27.2 seat post, Tange tubing, Same pump peg placement, similar brake braze ons. It also appears to have the same rear chain adjusters, AND the same chain hanger. Possibly an 86 or older Ironman Dave scott.
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Old 04-08-13, 01:12 AM
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i dont think that serial # is consistent with the centurion SN scheme.
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Old 04-08-13, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by frantik View Post
i dont think that serial # is consistent with the centurion SN scheme.
Ahh, yep, you are correct there.

Looking back at the catalog for 84, none of them used such an ornate lug either.
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Old 04-08-13, 06:00 AM
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The only matrching serial format that I'm aware of would be a European market Kawamura built frame (i.e. Nishiki or other). However, it that would indicate a 1988 frame and I'm not convinced this one is that new. I think it is closer to circa 1985. The frame has some interesting conflicts. It has the pump peg and dual water bottle bosses of the mid to late 1980s but the the derailleur cables are still being run over the BB shell, which is typical of an earlier period. The New Cyclone components themselves should date to 1985-1986. It's probably Japanese, so my next step would be to pull the fork. If it is Japanese there should be a Tange or Ishiwata stamp along with an alpha-numeric, two character date code. It may not help with the actual identification, but it should narrow down the year and tubing.

You're right, Barbie would not ride that bicycle. She'd want the saddle pointed nose up, not down.
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Old 04-09-13, 10:54 AM
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Hmm, is it possible I'm misreading the serial number? Does anyone else interpret it differently? (My girlfriend thought that what I saw as an 'H' might actually might be two 'I's with a scratch between them, for instance).

I'll try to pull the fork next to check that out. I tried removing some of the pink paint using mineral spirits, but it didn't seem to have much effect. Based on what I've read, that implies it might be an acrylic paint. Has anyone tried using a Meguiar clay bar for removing a layer or two of spray paint? Any other suggestions for trying to remove it?

I did scratch some paint off with a razor, but I haven't revealed any decals yet. It is confirming that it was a very nice red previously.
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Old 04-09-13, 11:02 AM
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https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...umber-Database

according to this page, your bike coul dbe a european nishiki from 1988.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post6657647

That link shows an '87 with over the bb cable guides.
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Old 04-09-13, 11:17 AM
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You could use aircraft paint stripper but not put it in a bag and leave it for a short period of time and watch it to see when it starts peeling and then wash it off right away. I would use paint thinner and a superfine steel wool to start.

Are the rear drop-out faces chromed as well. I agree there are some nishiki like features about it. Nishiki used those imitation prugnat lugs on some bikes. I agree that '84-'85 makes a lot of sense.
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Old 04-09-13, 11:47 AM
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It definitely looks like a nice frame, whatever it is. I have nothing against pink, but the application is pretty offensive.

I doubt you'll get anywhere with mineral spirits or any other mild solvent. You could try acetone but I wouldn't expect miracles there either. Removing one layer while leaving the original intact is pretty delicate work, which is why painting conservators don't come cheap. You may have to use something strong like toluene (wear a vapor respirator!) but don't try to rush it. Ultimately, your best option might be to just strip it with marine stripper and have it powder coated.
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Old 04-09-13, 03:27 PM
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Hey all - I found something interesting when I was looking for info about the Tange headset which I assumed was a replacement: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-nashbar-frame. While this doesn't necessarily settle anything, it's certainly one possibility.

The implication is that this might actually be a Nashbar frame. The lugs appear similar, the paint I'm seeing under the pink appears similar, the Suntour Pro dropouts and the Tange headset match... and the serial number is very similar (mine: EH36984; his: EH36931). Based on that, scratching off some more paint to find a decal and seeing Ishiwata on the fork might make a match seem more likely.

Since the bike in that post is a known Nashbar with that serial number format, I'm wondering if maybe Nashbar had the same builders for these as Nishiki, i.e., Kawamura. And maybe Kawamura figured they could use the E serial numbers for both Euro Nishikis and American Nashbars. If this turns out to be the case, it could be an interesting side note for T-Mar's serial number database.

In the case of the one I have, it's possible that the original owner bought it as a frame and then added a Cyclone group that was a year or two old... maybe even got the group from Nashbar on closeout.

So the bike may still turn out to be something else, but this is one interesting possibility.

Oh, and I agree, due ruote - nothing against pink in general, though it wouldn't be my top choice, but the application in this case is just a terrible insult to what seems to be a rather nice frame.

Last edited by echo victor; 04-09-13 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 04-09-13, 05:18 PM
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sounds like you may be on a hot trail and may have something to add to the database about Kawamura and Nashbar...strip that paint carefully.
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Old 04-09-13, 06:10 PM
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Top of BB cable guides might indicate it's older than 85 as that was pretty much gone from most race and sport bikes by then.. Maybe early 80's or very late 70's.....
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Old 04-10-13, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
sounds like you may be on a hot trail and may have something to add to the database about Kawamura and Nashbar...strip that paint carefully.
Oh, great. Just after hearing how difficult it's going to be to remove the paint and that it's probably easier just to blast the whole thing, now I've got to try to strip the paint carefully?

That pink is starting to look better all the time.
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Old 04-10-13, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
Top of BB cable guides might indicate it's older than 85 as that was pretty much gone from most race and sport bikes by then.. Maybe early 80's or very late 70's.....
I disagree. Many road bikes had these guides till the early 1990s.
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Old 04-11-13, 01:02 PM
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Well, it is a very good match for a Nashbar Road Mk III, right down to the the SunTour New Cyclone components. According to my old catalogs, this was a 1986 model. However, the serial number discrepancy also proves that it is not a Kawamura manufactured frame.

These frames were an undisclosed Ishiwata double CrMo tubeset. Given the bicycles pricing, I strongly suspect it was one of the seamed EX/EXO tubsets. This further supports a non-Kawamura frame, as Kawamura were loyal to Tange with the other brands they manufactured. Based on the handful of other Nashbar serial numbers that have cropped up, I suspect the leading letter is the year indicator. I'd appreciate the date code which should be on the fork's steerer tube.
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Old 04-20-13, 05:47 PM
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Hey, T-Mar, sorry for the delay. I had to wait until I had time to remove the fork.

So even though it's difficult to make out in the photo, it's very definitely "TANGE 5B". On another interesting note, why is it difficult to make out? Well, one reason is that the guy who painted this actually removed the fork to paint the steerer tube... which should never be seen. This is the same guy who couldn't be bothered to remove the components from the frame during painting. Who does that?!



In case it's helpful, the stem also has a code on it: 88 over what I believe to be a letter J.



So does this offer spur any new ideas, T-Mar (or anyone else)? Given that this actually is Tange, maybe we're back to a Euro Kawamura.
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Old 03-04-16, 03:23 PM
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Hello, ordinarily I don't dredge up three year old threads, but since the issue of build location and tubing type hasn't necessarily been resolved, I thought I'd add another MKIII to the discussion and see if it can't be sorted. Also I just wanted to add that whomever painted that bike was on serious drugs...painted over the crown race**********

Anyway, the MKIII:

Serial # FN 62143, but note that the stamp becomes deeper from left to right, and the mark at the bottom of 'N6' is pretty light...the F could be an E. Maybe. There is NO evidence of the bottom horizintal line, though.

Fork, Tange 6D:

Details:



It had a Suntour Cyclone BB, but with no date code anywhere that I could see. Sakae CT bars, can't remember the stem offhand but the date on it was '86-I don't know if that was original. Headset was Tange Levin MTB 225. Seatpost was SR Laprade, 27.0, with a 1988 date. Again, I suspect it's original, but 1988?

The fork is Tange, so I'm assuming the tubing has to be as well? It certainly isn't seamed, the seat tube is clean and there is no seam.

Anyway, there you go.
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Old 03-05-16, 12:02 PM
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Tange made LOADS of forks and supplied them to MANY brands for years, so it's not necessarily an indication of the frame being constructed of Tange tubing...more likely yes, but not a slam-dunk.
And around this time the Japanese chrome-moly tubing makers (Tange, Ishiwata Miyata) had perfected seamed tubing with a nearly invisible electric-welded seam that they further smoothed by mandrel-drawing the tubes...so you really have to look INside the tubes to see evidence.
Plus these tubesets were cheaper to manufacture but MUCH higher quality that old-fashioned seamed tubing and allowed "multi-butted" internals that were pretty much impossible (or impractical) with "531" type seamless drawing practices.
Aside from all this trivia, i have no insights concerning the Nashbar Mk III frames, but always fun to see a "zombie thread" rise up from "dead"!
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