Camilo

I'm not sure whether to post this here or in mechanics, but here goes.

This is an (I think) an 80-90s vintage Sannino Frame and fork. 700c wheel size. In pretty good shape. My first retro-rebuild, although I rode the things up until about 10 years ago!

Brakes: I have on hand a set of Ultegra Calipers, 6500 series in case that makes a difference. I know they'll work with the brake levers I also have because I used them on another bike together. Will I be able to install these "modern" brakes on this older frame? Any cautions, gotchas or workarounds I'll need to do?

headset I need to buy a new headset. The only thing I'm not certain of is stack height. The frame's head tube is 5 1/8 inches (call it 130 mm). The fork's steer tube is 9" (call it 230mm). This leaves a difference of 100 mm. I'm just wondering how this relates to stack height options I can or should look at. Evidently the original campy headset is 36.3 stack height. I'm just not sure how this works for stack height sizing. Can a 40-42mm stack height headset work? How do you use the difference between the steer tube and head tube lengths to ascertain minimums or maximum stack height for headsets that can be used?

Finally seat tube. It is 27.2 i.d. Does this tell me anything about the tubeset the frame has? I'm pretty sure it's Columbus, but don't know anything beyond that. In case it matters, the frame and fork are about 5.75 lbs (2.6 kg) in a 54X54 size. This doesn't really matter, but I'm curious and trying to start learning about this stuff.

Thanks for your advice!

John E

The brake calipers should be fine, as long as you can adjust their reach appropriately.

Assuming the seat tube OD is a standard 28.6mm and not French 28.0, then an ID of 27.2 is indeed indicative of a good quality butted moly steel main triangle. That is the one giveaway between my two Capo frames -- the straight gauge 531 frame takes a 26.4mm seat post, whereas the double butted one takes a 27.2.

JohnDThompson 

As long as the calipers allow the pads to strike the rim properly there should be no problem. By the 80s-90s, almost all mid to high end frames used recessed mounting bolts, so it is unlikely that this will be a problem.

Is this original fork? 100mm longer than the head tube suggests it might be a replacement that has not been trimmed to fit. But yes, it can be trimmed to accommodate a 40-42mm stack headset as long as there are still usable threads once you've trimmed that extra 60mm off the top. Measure first to be sure; it's much easier and more reliable to extend existing threads than to cut fresh threads on an unthreaded steer tube.

27.2mm ID seat tube suggests decent tubing. Exactly what tubing can be hard to determine after the fact, but sometimes you can find markings designating Reynolds or Columbus. Rifling in the BB ends of the frame tubes and chainstays is indicative of Columbus SLX/SPX tubing and is a good sign.

Bianchigirll 

Pics?

Camilo

I will post some pics a little later. I am a little hesitant to post pics when I get it built because I'm going to get it rolling asap using a mix of American, Japanese, Taiwanese, and Italian old-ish and new parts I have in the "big box of crap in the garage". I'm pretty sure it won't qualify it for either the retro-correct or retro-modern halls of fame.

As for the fork, just found out that the steer tube length was given to me wrong, and it's 170mm, not 230 mm, leaving a more reasonable headset 40mm stack height.

anixi

You say that the frame AND fork weight 5.75lbs?! Wow, that's lighter than any 80's set except the Pug Triathlon, iirc. That's one hot setup for retro steel racing.

Camilo

Yea, I'm curious about that weight too. The guy who weighed it is reliable so I have no reason to doubt it, but we'll see. I dont' have it in hand but should next week. From the little I've read about these bikes in that era, the steel is probably Columbus SL or maybe even SLX. I don't really care except out of curiosity. I will try to figure it out if I can. But if it's really 5.75 lbs, it really doesn't matter what the steel is, it's light enough frame!

I appreciate the answers to my questions. I have almost all the parts I need to get it set up with existing (8, 9 or 10 ... we'll see which work best) wheels, using the downtube friction shifters to make it all work together. I ordered everything else I need today, so when it arrives I can skip work that day and build 'er up! Really looking forward to getting it in running condition and then deciding if I'm going to make a "project" out of it either period correct or with a modern shifting system. Probably modern since I'd rather start with more original parts if I'm going to do a retro-build. (yes, I'm still looking until the right one falls into my lap)

Road Fan

On the headset, you really need to measure the head tube length and the steer tube length more precisely, for a threaded headset. If you don't have a millimeter-graduated scale or ruler, get one from an Aco, TruValue, or Harbor Freight; it will probably save you money if you just buy headsets and try them and fail. The ideal headset stack height is the difference between the steer tube length and the head tube length. If you buy a headset with a stack height larger than the ideal, you might not be able to get enough, or any, thread engagement on the top nut. If you buy one that is only a few mm shorter than the ideal, you can add one spacer or a thicker spacer to make up the length. If you don't make up the length, you cannot properly adjust the bearing.

Typically stack heights of off the shelf headsets were 30 mm to 45 or so mm, specified by the bike company (i.e. Sannino, Trek, or Raleigh). I don't know for the modern greatly reduced availability of headsets. If your 100 mm difference between steer tube and head tube is the truth, you have a fork that does not match your frame. You either need a different fork or to trim and re-thread the steer tube on your existing fork. Before you do this, please buy a headset and trim to match your stack height. It's really best if they match. A match is what they were designed for.

Camilo

I too was concerned about the mismatch and re-contacted the seller of the frame and got it clarified (he'd made an error). He confirmed that it's 40mm difference which I'll re-verify. I now understand about the possibility of using a reasonable number of spacers, and the possibility of the top nut standing a minimal number of threads above the steer tube. I appreciate your comments which reinforce my understanding of threaded headsets stack height, etc. It's just been a while since I directly dealt with them other than taking them apart for greasing, etc. so this information is helpful.