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-   -   Is this upgrade even possible? (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/884157-upgrade-even-possible.html)

matimeo 04-14-13 11:37 PM

Is this upgrade even possible?
 
Thanks in advance for any hints. I found a Nishiki Seral in good condition for $75 at a thrift store last week. It is set up with some funky flat bars and old school shimano seven speed sis shifters. Has a front original Sugino triple chainring. I'm thinking of buying some Forte 9 speed brifters from Performance and upgrading the wheelset with a pair I have laying around. So the new shifters should play nice with the tiagra cassette. I'm not sure what will happen though with a nine speed chain on the original chainring. An even bigger concern is whether the original Cyclone front derailleur will play nice with the new shifters. Any help on that would be appreciated.
I'd love to be able to just use the existing wheelset, but I can't find any acceptable 3x7 brifters. Shimano makes a Tourney level set, but not for a triple.
Thanks!
Matimeo

degan 04-15-13 06:17 AM

what if you just changed the 7 speed uniglide hub body or whatever its called to a 9 speed hyperglide on the existing wheelset? There are many threads on here that show exactly how its done.

Bikedued 04-15-13 07:29 AM

The cyclone was never meant to be indexed, and isn't even the same manufacturer, so probably not. Also you may or may not run into front chainring spacing issues, to where the new narrow chain may get stuck between the rings. I do know for a fact through people trying to upgrade from eight speed, that derailleur cage width from eight to ten speed is way different. I consistently run into issues with the FD cage width. The cage is so wide by the time the chain is forced to climb to the big ring, the chain falls off on the outside. Get a clamp on Tiagra 9 speed FD and go from there. Nine speed cranksets are plentiful and cheap if you run into spacing issues(spaces between the front rings),,,,BD

matimeo 04-15-13 01:05 PM

Thanks for the replies. Looks like I've either got to stick with the current setup (don't see myself liking the flat bars), flip the bike, or upgrade it. I just don't know when I would bump into a nice frame like this in my size again, so I'm hesitant to let it go. I could build it up with new BB, double crank, 9 speed brifters, chain, derailleurs for about $250 if I source most of my parts through Nashbar (20% off today means I could get the brifters for under $100) and use the stuff I already have on hand (wheelset, handlebar). It would be kind of a shame to not use the wheels that came on the bike, since they're pretty nice and probably would last forever. What to do...

matimeo 04-15-13 01:13 PM

Degan,
I'm not sure I understand what you mean about upgrading. Are you suggesting that I can take an older wheelset threaded for a freewheel, and somehow convert it into a cassette-type setup? I've never heard of that before. I know they make some 9 speed freewheels, but the quality is suspect and I've heard it can lead to problems with axel breakage. If I'm missing something let me know- it would be a lifesaver.

Rambetter 04-15-13 02:42 PM

You could skip the brifters and opt for 7 speed bar-end shifters, the indexed kind, which are hard to come by.

clasher 04-15-13 02:50 PM

9 speed indexed bar-end shifters aren't terrible to use and the front is still a friction so it'll work with the cyclone FD. It's probably the easiest thing to compromise if you do really want to ride this bike. A tiagra donor bike might come your way if you look for it and then you can poach parts from it and likely sell your bar-cons to someone doing a gravel-grinder conversion or something. I've had good luck using 9 speed chains on older triple cranksets so far.

old's'cool 04-16-13 10:02 AM

matimeo, could you clarify your goals? So far it seems to me you really want to do is change to road handlebars & brifters, which is quite understandable. I agree keeping the 7spd freewheel configuration with the existing wheelset is one option you should keep in mind. 7-speed freewheels are still readily available and affordable new, so this is by no means a dead end. You do want to stay away from 8spd (or higher) freewheels, as you are correct; reports are that the length of the axle required makes it prone to bending or breaking.
I've read that there are ways to set up an 8-speed indexed shifter to shift 7 speeds; so if you're interested in that option, do some searching. That would open up the option of a 3x8 brifter setup which should be readily available.
Depending on which front shifter you go with , you may have to change the front derailler to one that's compatible with the shifter.

EBH 04-16-13 10:48 AM

I had a bike with a mix of shimano RSX STI's, RD and 7sp frewheel and Cyclone FD and double chainrings.
Worked fine with the exception of worn out STI's.:)

wrk101 04-16-13 10:48 AM

Unless you are extremely resourceful, switching a non-STI bike to STI can be quite expensive, and its easy to exceed the cost of just picking up a nice used bike with STI already.

I've never gotten a Cyclone FD to index a triple STI. May be my lack of skill. Last time I tried it, I finally gave up and switched to a Shimano RX100, which worked immediately.

I've upgraded several vintage bikes to STI, but in each case, the project started with finding a smokin hot deal on an STI donor bike.

RaleighSport 04-16-13 11:36 AM


Originally Posted by wrk101 (Post 15516899)
Unless you are extremely resourceful,or LUCKY switching a non-STI bike to STI can be quite expensive, and its easy to exceed the cost of just picking up a nice used bike with STI already.

I've never gotten a Cyclone FD to index a triple STI. May be my lack of skill. Last time I tried it, I finally gave up and switched to a Shimano RX100, which worked immediately.

I've upgraded several vintage bikes to STI, but in each case, the project started with finding a smokin hot deal on an STI donor bike.

FTFY (the first line Bill, since I wouldn't say I was resourceful when I did it). I have actually gotten a first gen cyclone to index with triple STI, and I wouldn't recommend it, like Bill said grab a FD which is already compliant like an RX100 and you'll be just fine I think.

matimeo 04-16-13 01:40 PM

I am quickly learning what you mean by how upgrading can be expensive. Donor bikes are hard to come by here in Portland, at least at a reasonable price. I'm leaning towards going the Nashbar microshift route, and upgrading everything to 10 speed. I think I can do it all for about $300, which will get me into a pretty nice bike. I'm still looking for a good modern front derailleur with a 28.6 clamp on the cheap.

matimeo 04-16-13 01:53 PM

On the note of my last post- can I use a 9 speed double front derailleur without too many problems on my 10 speed setup?

Taxi Rob 04-16-13 03:20 PM


Originally Posted by Rambetter (Post 15513773)
You could skip the brifters and opt for 7 speed bar-end shifters, the indexed kind, which are hard to come by.

Not really. Shimano SL-BS50 (NOT the SL-BS50-8, be careful when buying online) are the indexed 7 speed model and are still pretty easy to come by. Since the front is friction it doesn't matter what front derailleur/chainring combo you run. Use them on dirt drops, flipped albatross or northroad bars and you're good to go. As for rear indexing, if you run 8 cogs from a 9 speed on a 7 speed freehub, you should hit all 8 just fine with a 9 speed shifter. Changing out a freehub is a serious pita, and respacing/redishing add to the time and expense. I hope this helps in your decision.

cycle_maven 04-16-13 04:19 PM

Here's a 7-speed right-hand lever for $36:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Sora...202#vi-content

And a 3-speed left-hand lever for $39:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-SORA...2202%26ps%3D54

I know, Sora is kinda frowned upon since it upshifts with buttons, but add a Shimano Road front triple derailleur and you'll be under a C-note. And it will be perfectly functional.


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