Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Painting my Paramount

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Painting my Paramount

Old 05-01-13, 08:58 AM
  #26  
tarwheel 
Senior Member
 
tarwheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 8,900

Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
I have a Waterford RST-22 with a beautiful original factory paint job, but it is very fragile. The paint gets chipped and scratched worse than any bike I have ever owned, and that includes several Italian bikes. I wouldn't mind sending it back to Waterford for a repaint, but frankly I just don't trust them given the poor durability of the original paint. Perhaps there is a reason why mine chips so badly, and I did buy it used, but for what they charge it should be more durable. Iowned a GIOS for three years, 10,000+ miles and it didn't have a single chip or scratch when I sold it. My Eddy Merckx Corsa probably had 20,000+ miles over 5+ years, and it didn't have any chips or scratches. I also have a De Bernardi with 9,000+ miles over 6 years, and it doesn't have any chips or scratches.

If I decide to repaint the Waterford, I will probably get the factory details but have it painted by someone else.
tarwheel is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 09:00 AM
  #27  
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,774

Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawles; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 98 Posts
The only car I have that hasn't been repainted either by me or the previous owner is my 63 Avante, but that one rarely saw the light of day before I bought it some 30 years ago, now I drive it about twice a year to car shows and that's the only light of day it sees. The other cars had been used daily before I got them at least to a certain time frame and either the previous owner repainted or I did but only repainted in factory stock paint, but they had to be repainted because the paint fades to where it looks like crap, especially red and silver. My 67 Galaxy is red, it's been repainted twice since new, I did it once, but original enamel red just goes poof in the sun due to no clear coat, today's paints do last longer due to the clear coat, once they got the clear coat science to work right. But when I repainted the Galaxie I did it illegally because California, where I painted it, outlawed (Diamond Lustre used on the Ford) enamel painting of the cars, my friend and I did it anyways. We did not use a clear coat either to stay with the original way of painting, but we did put 3 more coats then the factory 2 did so we could buff it more when the time came to get oxidation off without taking the paint down to far.

Not sure if that would pass the scrutiny of a concourse judge like 2112yyz but it's what I wanted and I don't enter contest like that to win trophies, I just have them.
rekmeyata is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 09:11 AM
  #28  
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,774

Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawles; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 98 Posts
Originally Posted by tarwheel View Post

If I decide to repaint the Waterford, I will probably get the factory details but have it painted by someone else.
It's your bike, you can have it painted any way or color you want. Classic cars aren't always painted to factory specs either, in fact a lot of classic cars have been mechanically altered as well because that's what the owner wants, and if they have to they can sell the car like that to a buyer who wants a modified car. But originality, or restoring it to orginal condition is better for resale price. So the choice is yours, either do it to factory original paint and components or alter it if you like it better that way and selling it is not an option. Remember, it's your bike, not mine or someone else's here, you have to decide what you want.
rekmeyata is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 09:31 AM
  #29  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,906
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3436 Post(s)
Liked 2,184 Times in 1,292 Posts
Given that this frame lacks the original fork, I wonder if all this discussion about worth to future buyers in terms of originality is a moot point and he should just go with what he likes.
himespau is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 04:47 PM
  #30  
DOS
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Posts: 2,107
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
Hey, those of you who did work yourselves or had someone other than Waterford do the work, where'd you get decals?
DOS is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 04:56 PM
  #31  
2112YYZ
Senior Member
 
2112YYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fox Island Washington
Posts: 142

Bikes: Paramounts P-15(2) and P-10 Several Krates

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post

Not sure if that would pass the scrutiny of a concourse judge like 2112yyz but it's what I wanted and I don't enter contest like that to win trophies, I just have them.

I am on your side. I am trying to make the point if your bike is worse for wear, Restore it! Car guys do it all the time. I think it is great. Most of these road bikes can't be faked, Paramounts have serial # histories and are not that rare.

I understand faking an Apple Krate from a StingRay Carcass is verboten and rightly so, but I don't understand this thing were every bike needs to be treated like the long lost Shelby Super Snake and left unrestored.

If they are in good shape, of course preserve them. If not, fix them! Overcook them at your own peril at resale time.

Waterford has the decals BTW.
2112YYZ is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 05:14 PM
  #32  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,906

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by georges1 View Post
stunning job michael angelo

Thanks.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 05:51 PM
  #33  
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,770

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
You talkin' 'bout me?

Yeah, that's the one. I can't imagine getting anything better than that! (wish it had all the Paramount parts though!)
dbakl is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 08:28 PM
  #34  
2112YYZ
Senior Member
 
2112YYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fox Island Washington
Posts: 142

Bikes: Paramounts P-15(2) and P-10 Several Krates

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I cannot remember where I uploaded this picture, but I think it is a Waterford restoration?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
61 Paramount_12.jpg (67.3 KB, 39 views)
2112YYZ is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 08:30 PM
  #35  
2112YYZ
Senior Member
 
2112YYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fox Island Washington
Posts: 142

Bikes: Paramounts P-15(2) and P-10 Several Krates

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I asked Pastor Bob where his former Coppertone was done. He said he could not remember the name but it was somewhere in Indiana.

Maybe it was Foresta?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
66ParamountOct242006.jpg (105.3 KB, 32 views)

Last edited by 2112YYZ; 05-01-13 at 08:33 PM.
2112YYZ is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 03:15 AM
  #36  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,906

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by DOS View Post
Hey, those of you who did work yourselves or had someone other than Waterford do the work, where'd you get decals?

I got mine from Velocals, but it seems they're having Problems with Pacific Cycles and the Schwinn Name brand.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 05:35 AM
  #37  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 40,176

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 495 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7014 Post(s)
Liked 1,765 Times in 1,099 Posts
I have a fancy collector's-item frame, a McLean, made by a guy named McLean Fonvielle. The poor guy died suddenly at the age of 29, of an embolism. What a tragedy.

I got the frame in about 1983. I ruined the decals and the paint over time, so I decided to have it painted in about 1991. I sent it to Peter Weigle and had him braze on a lot of goodies, since it didn't come with any braze-ons. I didn't bother with trying to make it look original. I replaced the original metallic light blue color with a deep purple. There are no decals. I don't need to advertise the maker of the bike while I move down the road. It's just my bike.

Take a look again at what Michael Angelo did with his bike. He painted it yourself. Painting isn't rocket surgery. I'm hand painting my Raleigh International. It's going slowly, since I'm being careful about it. It's fun, too.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 08:53 AM
  #38  
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,774

Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawles; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 98 Posts
Originally Posted by 2112YYZ View Post
I am on your side. I am trying to make the point if your bike is worse for wear, Restore it! Car guys do it all the time. I think it is great. Most of these road bikes can't be faked, Paramounts have serial # histories and are not that rare.

I understand faking an Apple Krate from a StingRay Carcass is verboten and rightly so, but I don't understand this thing were every bike needs to be treated like the long lost Shelby Super Snake and left unrestored.

If they are in good shape, of course preserve them. If not, fix them! Overcook them at your own peril at resale time.

Waterford has the decals BTW.
I know you were on my side, sorry for the confusion. But I know my Avante is worth more then the same twin brother Avante would be worth that had a repaint, probably not worth a lot more, but there is value in having the original factory paint especially if it still looks good, and mine looks great.

I'm not sure if any of my cars would pass the scrutiny of a concourse judge, because they I'm sure they would find something that's not completely original and ding me for it. I keep my cars in shape but sometimes I may step outside of factory original part if that part is either not made or crazy expensive and there's another part that does the same thing for less.
rekmeyata is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 12:39 PM
  #39  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by DOS View Post
Hey, those of you who did work yourselves or had someone other than Waterford do the work, where'd you get decals?
Dr. Deltron (Mark Bunten) got them from Waterford. I think I remember him saying the complete set was $75 (1987 Waterford Paramount).

__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 08:51 PM
  #40  
2112YYZ
Senior Member
 
2112YYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fox Island Washington
Posts: 142

Bikes: Paramounts P-15(2) and P-10 Several Krates

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
I know you were on my side, sorry for the confusion. But I know my Avante is worth more then the same twin brother Avante would be worth that had a repaint, probably not worth a lot more, but there is value in having the original factory paint especially if it still looks good, and mine looks great.

I'm not sure if any of my cars would pass the scrutiny of a concourse judge, because they I'm sure they would find something that's not completely original and ding me for it. I keep my cars in shape but sometimes I may step outside of factory original part if that part is either not made or crazy expensive and there's another part that does the same thing for less.
It is all good.

Wouldn't it be a bland world if all bikes or cars had to be 100% original or Totally modified or totally ProStreet or totally Protouring or fixed gear or Randonneur style?

I like them all. I really like the preserved originals, They are rare and valuable. I also really like nicely done modified bikes/cars. They show the owner's hard work and personal taste.

I am not a judge of any type and even if I were expert enough to be one, I don't think I would enjoy nitpicking someone else's hard work and expense. But I do like acknowledging someone's spectacular efforts.

Variety is the spice of life!
2112YYZ is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 09:03 PM
  #41  
gerv 
In the right lane
 
gerv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 9,565

Bikes: 1974 Huffy 3 speed

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I'm hand painting my Raleigh International. It's going slowly, since I'm being careful about it. It's fun, too.
That would make an interesting thread. Hope you have photos.
gerv is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 11:52 PM
  #42  
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,774

Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawles; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 98 Posts
Originally Posted by 2112YYZ View Post
It is all good.

Wouldn't it be a bland world if all bikes or cars had to be 100% original or Totally modified or totally ProStreet or totally Protouring or fixed gear or Randonneur style?

I like them all. I really like the preserved originals, They are rare and valuable. I also really like nicely done modified bikes/cars. They show the owner's hard work and personal taste.

I am not a judge of any type and even if I were expert enough to be one, I don't think I would enjoy nitpicking someone else's hard work and expense. But I do like acknowledging someone's spectacular efforts.

Variety is the spice of life!
I like a lot of modified cars and their paint jobs, but for my personal collection I keep everything stock, I do make minor changes that can be easily reverted back, like in all my cars I've replaced the point system with the Pertronics electronic points which leaves the distributor completely stock in appearance but eliminates the need to replace and adjust points every 10,000 miles or so. There's other stuff I do but it would take forever to list them.

I don't think stock is boring, I think that's the way the manufacture wanted the car and so I try to keep them that way. I do the same with my bikes too.
rekmeyata is offline  
Old 05-03-13, 01:48 AM
  #43  
neo_pop_71
Senior Member
 
neo_pop_71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 836
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by DOS View Post
.

Waterford starts at $750 not including shipping and upcharge if I wanted precise year specific restoration. So I'd be looking at near 1000 bucks by time I got the bike back. It's just not worth it to me to go to those lengths especially since I dont have original fork, and I have no intension of selling so resale is not a factor. No powder coat though, I promise.

I found these guys 45 minutes from me so I sent them an email to see what they can do.

https://www.bikeframerepair.com/BikePaint.html
Hey DOS, what about sending your Paramount to Michael Angelo? You've seen the quality of his top-notch work and since this isn't "The Grail" at the end of the day to a collector, have him dial in your restoration on your P'mount frame.

Good luck and enjoy each step of the process!

-D-
neo_pop_71 is offline  
Old 05-03-13, 06:09 AM
  #44  
ericbaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I always find it best to talk with other local collectors and see who does good work in the area.

If you havent already, go to The Old Bike Shop on Pershing St. in Arlington and talk to Larry, hes a good guy and likely knows a lot of people who ciuld help you repaint.
ericbaker is offline  
Old 05-03-13, 05:17 PM
  #45  
DOS
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Posts: 2,107
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by ericbaker View Post
I always find it best to talk with other local collectors and see who does good work in the area.

If you havent already, go to The Old Bike Shop on Pershing St. in Arlington and talk to Larry, hes a good guy and likely knows a lot of people who ciuld help you repaint.
I live two blocks away but haven't had a chance to get over there. Sent an email, no response. I may swing by this weekend.
DOS is offline  
Old 05-07-13, 05:08 AM
  #46  
DOS
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Posts: 2,107
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
Dr. Deltron (Mark Bunten) got them from Waterford. I think I remember him saying the complete set was $75 (1987 Waterford Paramount).


Hey Scooper (and others, a question about decals). I notice in some pictures of paramount a with allegedly original paint, there are Columbus tubing decals on fork and seat post (like this one https://www.pbase.com/dmdo/image/104461885 ). Others, like attached photo, the decals are not present. I wasn't planning to bother with the tubing decals but was curious as to the explanation.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
image.jpg (98.9 KB, 18 views)
DOS is offline  
Old 05-07-13, 08:51 AM
  #47  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 49 Posts
Mine had a Columbus decal on the seat tube down near the bottom bracket, but none on the fork blades.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 05-08-13, 08:28 PM
  #48  
DOS
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Posts: 2,107
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
Mine had a Columbus decal on the seat tube down near the bottom bracket, but none on the fork blades.
I don't have original fork but my white Paramount has no decal on dt.

I have also seen pictures with no decals at all like this one

https://www.flickr.com/photos/camchri...9023/lightbox/

And ones with decals on both dt and fork like this one.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gideon/...3770/lightbox/

Were decals just stick on (i.e not under clearcoat) so some get washed away or otherwise peal away overtime. Or was Paramount just not consistent about applying them?
DOS is offline  
Old 05-09-13, 08:15 AM
  #49  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 49 Posts
The '86 and '87 catalogs both clearly show Columbus decals on the seat tube near the BB shell, and that's where the decal was on my '87. I don't recall whether it was under the clearcoat or just stuck on as I had it repainted soon after I got it.

Here's the '86 catalog photo:

__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 05-09-13, 08:24 AM
  #50  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 49 Posts
The '86 catalog photo doesn't have fork blade decals.

__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.