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Painting my Paramount

Old 04-29-13, 05:01 PM
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DOS
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Painting my Paramount

I have a Waterford built Paramount the paint on which is in bad shape. Would love to have it stripped down, decals replaced and repainted. But shipping it back to the Waterford factory inWisconsin is just not in budget. What are my options and how much should expect to pay for a high quality paint job , assuming I can find someone near me who does this sort of thing.
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Old 04-29-13, 05:22 PM
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$500 and up with decals. This is a Waterford paint job on a 1967/8 Paramount my friend gave his daughter for her college graduation. The don't get much better than this. Roger
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Old 04-29-13, 05:27 PM
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did you mean "better" or "bigger"? haha JK... but the photos are pretty small. I am sure it is a beauty.
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Old 04-29-13, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rhenning View Post
$500 and up with decals. Roger
I agree with Roger's estimate.

I paid $450 locally in Northern Califormia (Dr. Deltron) for painting my '87 Paramount single color LPU (Ferrari Red) with decals and clear coat about five years ago.
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Old 04-29-13, 05:49 PM
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Like a lot of things, it kinda depends on how you define "high quality." Waterford repaints aren't cheap, but they're not the most expensive paint, either. You'll likely have more options shipping your frame somewhere, the shipping cost should be a fraction of the total paint cost.

Franklin Frames in Ohio are often mentioned for affordable, reliable, high-quality paint. They start at $215 for single color wet paint, that's with no masking, no decals, no clear coat. You can go through their price list to see how things add up, but I'd say you could hit $350+/- without too much trouble for paint, decals, masking, clear coat and return postage.

The Color Factory here in NJ also has a good rep for affordability and quality, you can find pricing and stuff online.

I think you'd have a hard time finding good paint, including masking and decals, for less than $300. There's a lot of cheap powder coating out there, mostly from places that don't specialize in bicycles, and it's not uncommon to have issues there: paint too thick, improper pre-prep on threads and bearing/cup surfaces, etc. Good powder is from a bike specialty painter is very good, but no cheaper than good wet paint.

Originally Posted by DOS View Post
I have a Waterford built Paramount the paint on which is in bad shape. Would love to have it stripped down, decals replaced and repainted. But shipping it back to the Waterford factory in Wisconsin is just not in budget. What are my options and how much should expect to pay for a high quality paint job , assuming I can find someone near me who does this sort of thing.
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Old 04-29-13, 06:09 PM
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I had Brian Bayliss to redo my track, but the quality is fabulous. Needed a couple repairs, new chrome in the rear, and decals but he is the best painter I've ever seen. Current price, you'd have to check with him. A old Paramount is certainly worth doing well. From what I've seen of Waterford they're pretty good too, and it would sorta be original!

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Old 04-29-13, 06:49 PM
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I've heard good things about this shop, and the photos, etc. really look fine. I think you're looking at $350+ with this guy.

https://forestaframes.com/Site/Restoration.html
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Old 04-29-13, 08:30 PM
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I have a Waterford-done Paramount. In the long run, it's cheap enough.

Last time I went local on paint, ($350) he did a super job (www.porkchopcustoms.com) but he made it clear that $500 would be the lowest he'd charge from now on.

Next time, I'm going Hot Tubes.
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Old 04-29-13, 09:48 PM
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Does Waterford clear over the decals?

Is their end result good, very good or EXCELLENT! ? (serious question)

It seems for some of the hard core "gotta be original" guys, a Waterford paint job is considered a factory paint job.
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Old 04-30-13, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 2112YYZ View Post
Does Waterford clear over the decals?

Is their end result good, very good or EXCELLENT! ? (serious question)

It seems for some of the hard core "gotta be original" guys, a Waterford paint job is considered a factory paint job.
they do clear coat and offer two levels of restoration. See attached

https://waterfordbikes.com/images/upl...nairev1.0f.pdf
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Old 04-30-13, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 2112YYZ View Post
Does Waterford clear over the decals?

Is their end result good, very good or EXCELLENT! ? (serious question)

It seems for some of the hard core "gotta be original" guys, a Waterford paint job is considered a factory paint job.
Someone here had an early Paramount redone at Waterford, I'd say the results were pretty EXCELLENT from what I saw in pictures! Maybe they'll chime in.
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Old 04-30-13, 09:48 AM
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I've never checked on pricing but maybe check out Keith Anderson. I always like his Facebook updates on stuff he's working on. He's just a few miles from my house along with the crazy paint jobs of John Slawta of Landshark.
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Old 04-30-13, 11:10 AM
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Painted this myself.




Before.

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Old 04-30-13, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
Someone here had an early Paramount redone at Waterford, I'd say the results were pretty EXCELLENT from what I saw in pictures! Maybe they'll chime in.
You talkin' 'bout me?

Waterford did a stunningly awesome job on my 1940 Paramount. I don't believe anyone else could have done as well.

Before:



After:



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Old 04-30-13, 12:29 PM
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Michael A. Excellent! I plan on doing my own painting this summer. Interesting to see the amount of corrosion on the tubes prior to paint. Looks a little worse than my frame. I take encouragement, thanks!

Henry III: Met Keith at a NAHMBS in Portland once. Nice person, expensive work and probably worth the price. Exudes competence!
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Old 04-30-13, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Angelo View Post
Painted this myself.




Before.

This is exactly what I would refer to as EXCELLENT!

No fair hanging that out in front of us.
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Old 04-30-13, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DOS View Post
I have a Waterford built Paramount the paint on which is in bad shape. Would love to have it stripped down, decals replaced and repainted. But shipping it back to the Waterford factory in Wisconsin is just not in budget. What are my options and how much should expect to pay for a high quality paint job , assuming I can find someone near me who does this sort of thing.
Why re-paint it anywhere else than at Waterford? It's like getting your vintage Corvette re-painted by the GM factory in Kentucky! The only re-paint I want to see on a Paramount (as a potential buyer, at top-Dollar) is a Waterford one. They have the proper decals, too. Save up for it if you need to. You could spend more and get a much worse job, imo, and some of those other paintjobs would decrease the frame's value vs. not painting it at all....

DO NOT powder-coat it, please....
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Old 04-30-13, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 753proguy View Post
Why re-paint it anywhere else than at Waterford? It's like getting your vintage Corvette re-painted by the GM factory in Kentucky! The only re-paint I want to see on a Paramount (as a potential buyer, at top-Dollar) is a Waterford one. They have the proper decals, too. Save up for it if you need to. You could spend more and get a much worse job, imo, and some of those other paintjobs would decrease the frame's value vs. not painting it at all....

DO NOT powder-coat it, please....
.

Waterford starts at $750 not including shipping and upcharge if I wanted precise year specific restoration. So I'd be looking at near 1000 bucks by time I got the bike back. It's just not worth it to me to go to those lengths especially since I dont have original fork, and I have no intension of selling so resale is not a factor. No powder coat though, I promise.

I found these guys 45 minutes from me so I sent them an email to see what they can do.

https://www.bikeframerepair.com/BikePaint.html
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Old 04-30-13, 08:13 PM
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Its a tough problem. I decided that my holy grail bicycle is a 24 inch framed Schwinn Paramount in Campus Green. I am going to build it and keep it forever...So I saved up. I am sending mine to Waterford to get it done right. Best quality job Ive seen. You would be best to save a few more days, weeks, months and git er done right. especially if this is something you are going to keep.
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Old 04-30-13, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 2112YYZ View Post

It seems for some of the hard core "gotta be original" guys, a Waterford paint job is considered a factory paint job.

Originally Posted by 753proguy View Post
Why re-paint it anywhere else than at Waterford? It's like getting your vintage Corvette re-painted by the GM factory in Kentucky! The only re-paint I want to see on a Paramount (as a potential buyer, at top-Dollar) is a Waterford one. They have the proper decals, too. Save up for it if you need to. You could spend more and get a much worse job, imo, and some of those other paintjobs would decrease the frame's value vs. not painting it at all...
This makes my earlier point to a T. In absolutely no way am I questioning the Warterford restoration paint. I have heard nothing but good things.

But......

Do they really do the "Best"? I won't comment on the GM paint on a Corvette, but I am fairly certain that you can have your Ferrari restored to a much higher level of perfection here by private restorers than having the Ferrari Factory do it. For one reason, the factory intends to restore to originality which is actually pretty poor quality. If Schwinn was building 1200 Paramounts a year, how good was their paint? I am lucky to have a few originals and I can say that they are better than decent, but no where near the level of say Michael Angelo's P-13 above, That bike sets a new standard.
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Old 04-30-13, 10:32 PM
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Either do it yourself if your good at painting stuff, otherwise Waterford may cost $500 to do but it will be done right. $500 to make a bike look like brand new is nothing, save up some money and have it done later. Waterford repaints in a matter keeping with the original historical paints used and graphics, taking it somewhere else because they'll use better paint is not keeping the bike in the concept of original condition, thus a serious Paramount collector could reject the bike if he's wanting a factory correct bike.

When it comes to classic value the original paint is worth more to collectors then a repaint regardless of the poorer quality of a factory paint job. A Ferrari getting repainted is not quite as valuable as the original factory painted Ferrari, and sending a Ferrari back to the factory for repaint does not constitute as a original factory paint job. Problem with all this repainting and worth crap is that the older a car, or bike, gets the less likely it won't get repainted due to the nature of paint interacting to years of weather and wear and tear.
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Old 04-30-13, 10:45 PM
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I would totally agree that original paint is most valuable. And a very few special cars still have original paint and they command huge dollars.

By far, most of the super valuable collector cars have been restored, most often to a standard far exceeding originality.

But having been a car guy for 35 years, I think it is safe to say a whole lot of car guys want their special cars as close to perfection as the canvas will allow. It is not nearly as frowned upon to take a decent original car to stellar build quality as it seems to be in the bicycle world (based on my observations). I see comments to keep beat to **** frames original for the sake of originality 1000% more often in bicycle circles than in car circles. I agree, keep the nice ones original, and if it is not too rare, and Paramounts are not exactly rare, fix up the neglected ones and make them new again. Most experts will not believe your perfect restoration is original, so you would be foolish to try and represent it that way.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 05-01-13, 12:13 AM
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I've been a "Car guy" for over 40 years. I've restored many a Muscle Car, mostly MOPAR ones. I'm also a Car show judge, I know th difference between an orignal paint job, an over restored/perfect paint job, and one that was done to mimic the factory job. I did the Paramount in the "factory Style" the paint is not 10 feet thick, the decals are not under 6 coats of clear, and I used factory match Schwinn Paint. I could have used much more expensive paint, such as "House Of Kolor" paints, would have turned out looking very "Custom". Not the look I was after.
I don't restore vehicles anymore, this is the last one I did. 1969 Dodge Super Bee, 440 six pack, original "A-12" car. Car belonged to a good friend.



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Old 05-01-13, 12:23 AM
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^^For not over doing it, you sure know how to make it rich without having the "overcooked" look.

My factory Paramount paint is not as crisp or clear. Of course age does some of that, but not all.

Even with the flaws, most of my collection will never be repainted, in fact, only 2 will....someday.
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Old 05-01-13, 01:45 AM
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stunning job michael angelo
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