mgwilder

Hi,

You may remember my 1980 Colnago Super and the dimpled seat tube:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ube?highlight=

I just received my frame from the shop. I asked for matching paint and decals (which I was told was doable) and this is what I got back:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/4166296...7633458152209/

The work on the seat tube was fantastic, but I'd like your opinion on the matching and anything else that might catch your eye. I have my list, I just want to understand if I'm nit-picking here or not.

Thanks,

mgw

gomango

I like the new color.

Here is what I notice on the iPad.

The new color seems somewhat closer to mustard/butterscotch.

A little less orange maybe.

Clear coat over the new paint seems to have more shine/lustre.

The Colnago decals on the dt are slightly off alignment.

oddjob2

The paint finish looks far better than the original. Can't comment on color match. The letter spacing on the downtube looks a bit off to my eye.

repechage

It is nice, it is different. From observations of having a frame repainted and not being happy, some of this can come down to a lack of specificity. To the painter you got "just like" in his/her terms.
The foil chainstay panel could be created, I would try cyclomondo for that. (I think that concept is a poor one, buy two or three, they don't last from the chain slap)
The donwtube and seat tube graphics are to me problematic, but I am Really Picky.
The quality of the overall effort appears good which is a disappointment I am sure.
The next bike I have painted I will provide or request the following:

My expectations as to masking bosses and threadings.
A comprehensive graphics placement sheet, images and/or dimensions both along and around and graphic samples! (scans go a long way)
Color verification sprayout, or I will supply the paint, (that way I will know what will come back) including notes on the undercoat color.
Full description of the paint accents such as lug lining and or window filling, with a color/gloss/width sample.
How I want the clear coat done. (for instance, I don't like transfers buried in clear)

From the above I do expect to PAY for what I want, it will not be cheap. I do expect to get what I want though.

oddjob2

How can you guys realistically judge paint color when the before is shot indoors under incandescent(?) and the after are shot outdoors in daylight? Of course colors are warmer under incandescent.

Michael Angelo 

I paint my own, that way I get what I want.

repechage

You are correct. The translation form digital camera of images taken at different times and perhaps different lighting (and maybe not even with the same camera) to computer to various monitors is fraught with drift. I dodged commenting on the color.

oddjob2

But of course with your name, you probably can do frescos on church ceilings too!

gomango

I've looked at this on three different monitors.

Three different hues.

He asked what I thought, I told him.

I am quite aware of lighting conditions, but thanks for the primer.

gomango

@op Most importantly, and you may have mentioned this in another thread, who did the refinish?

mgwilder

On the flickr link they are both taken outside on my stoop from approximately the same distance. There is light difference, but they were both overcast days.

mgwilder

As far as who did it, I didn't want to bring that up yet.

For me, the decals aren't close. The seat tube "Colnago" is much smaller than the original and offset to the right. The down tube decals are offset and they both start off straight and fall out of straight by the end.

For me, the repaint is more canary and less mustard.

I was real clear about what I wanted and I was never led to believe it was unobtainable.

Sadly, there is a lot of sentimental feelings mixed in with this frame (I am the original owner), so it doesn't make this any easier for me.

gomango

Then, have you discussed your concerns with the refinisher?

repechage

Indeed. Of course it could have been a ship to receive situation. I would think that if it was picked up in person it may not have been taken home.

Situations like these are real bummers. I ended up NOT having the fellow redo the work, the frame still sits though. I am in the end out the big deposit which was 70 to 80% of the cost of the job.
My feeling was the painter who took way too long would not be that excited about redoing the work for free and fast as the overall elapsed time had been way over twice the stated turnaround, pushing 6 months plus.
On that bike the finish had lots of orange peel on the fork and the color was not right. The color was an interesting issue, the brand had a color that had evolved a bit, I had bikes with both versions, the color painted for me was a third.
Allegedly he had a sample with him, I assumed it was the same, that was a poor assumption on my part.
He did place the graphics as I directed.

The font, letter placement and outlining used to me on this one really falls short. the offset left to right on the down tube is really curious.
Sometimes a painter has a hard time recreating the caviler effort of the original, it is hard not to do one's best, not in this case in my mind.

Drillium Dude

I passed up getting my bare-metal Guerciotti and Colnago done a few months before leaving the country precisely because I could not get anything approaching a guarantee that the work would be carried out to my specifications.

That said, I don't have the talent to paint myself - I could surely get the placement of the decals set correctly, however. The paint, while it may not be to your required original hue, looks to have been laid down well, but there's just no way to justify goofing up the down tube decals. As for the seat tube decal, did you get a look at what they were planning to use there? It does seem that the lettering is too narrow.

If you can live with the color (and who knows, it may grow on you; the paint on my Alpina was supposed to be a burnt/metallic bronze but came out closer to a mocha color which I really, really like today), I'd request that the painter sand through the clear, removing the decals, then replace/re-clear. Can it be done? It can: I had a Cinelli Supercorsa repainted some years ago and they accidentally used two different sizes for the down tube decals. That issue was rectified using the process described.

One other thing: specify (if they will replace the decals) that the Colnago lettering be centered on the down tube using the gear lever boss as a centerline guide. Early 70s Colnago down tube decals aligned the bottom of the letters along the tube's centerline, but from the mid-70s were alligned with the centerline of the letters matching the centerline of the tube.

I hope you end up satisfied. It's always frustrating to pay good money for a restoration only to see it fall short - particularly if the people restoring it for you begin to suggest maybe you're being too picky. Ooh, don't go there with me

EDIT: I reviewed the old thread and realized who did the restoration. Push for what you want! I am absolutely stunned that this came from that shop with the decals looking like that; I just cannot imagine one of the co-owners accepting one of his own frames coming out looking like that. Oh, and after further review of your before/after shots, it just seems to me the original paint had much more of a pearl look to it, although the hues look similar on my screen (of course, it's incredible the range of hue the human eye can detect, so I can understand your concern, particularly as you've lived with the original color for a long time).

DD

gomango

Helpful posts I think.

Again, if I did the work, I would want my customer to be satisfied.

I would let the company that did the refinish know that this project isn't meeting expectations.

I would do it soon, with a paper trail of all prior discussions/agreements included.

If they are honorable, they will have to make this right.

Michael Angelo 

Wrong color, Decals are applied wrong. I would ask for a redo. Also when I get paint matched, I try a sample at the paint store, wait for it to dry then compare. Mixed paint and applied paint have different hues.

mgwilder

I was deeply concerned about sending this frame out to be refinished. The email chain on this is long and there was no mixing words. The frame was sent across the country, and since this is the first time I've ever had work done like this, anyone I worked with would have been on faith. I appreciated that one of the partners actually owned (and still has photos on his flickr page) a 1980 Colnago Super. When they were done and sent me photos, my heart broke. Admittedly, the florescent lights made the color differece look far worse, but it was clear that the decals were not even close. They even told me that the chrome decal was obtainable. I was clear that I wanted the color and decals matched and at no time during the process did they let me know that there were difficulties in meeting my expectations . I even wrote that if matching the decal would be difficult then maybe they could do a touch-up instead of a complete repaint. They just did it and sent the bill. And on top of it, sloppy work with the application of the wrong decals. I went back and for with them a couple of times about the work not meeting my requests and all I got back was how much it looks better, and these were the decals the supplier had and how it was done and there was nothing they could do. At no point did they even consider trying to fix the issues I had. Out of frustration, I paid and had the frame sent back.

I tried to get the two frame shots on the flickr page to be as close as possible so I could really see the difference. Same camera, both before and after were taken on an overcast day, and I tried to take it from the same distance.


The frame work and the quality of the paintwork were great, but I really feel taken advantage of.


I'm a little ambivalent about what I'm goig to do next. For me, even though it's the same tubes and lugs, it's not "my bike". It was a very unique color and even though I was "pack fodder" when I raced with this bike, it was special to me. I am seriously considering selling it.


Thanks for all your input so far.

ftwelder

People who do good work understand expectations and that sometimes things need to be done over. Tell them how you feel and come to an agreement. Don't sell the bike.

gomango

I have seen framesets beautifully refinished by Chris Kvale, so it is possible to have this done correctly.

Btw If you are still unsatisfied and paid by credit card, this is hardly a "done deal."

At the very least, a reduced rate/partial refund are clear possibilities.

How much energy do you have to put into this problem?

The decals would bug me to no end.

noglider 

It's not the same, but it's gorgeous.

Decide which you want to focus on. If you can bring yourself to focus on the fact that it's gorgeous, you could be done right now. I'm not saying you should, but is it a possibility?

I hope you will eventually reveal the company that did the work. I, for one, am impressed.

I sent my frame to Weigle for repairs, upgrades, and repainting about 20 years ago. I'm still very satisfied.

repechage

I think it is pretty clear who did the effort when the prior thread is reviewed.

I would at this point look for a suitable set of graphics, get them in hand and then decide what to do.
Mixing fresh paint to an image is going to be a trick, but not impossible, you do have a close but not quite example. I really feel a spray out of the candidate color on a tube will be required to press the go button. I also would check the seat post for fit, you want to know the full landscape of what you have to do before doing anything with the frame.

Drillium Dude

Exactly. The same painter that re-did my Cinelli's decals did the frame in question. If they will not work with the OP, it would be a departure from the norm.

I know from experience that a restoration is not cheap there; one should expect to get what one pays for, and at a minimum that means correct decals placed accurately - not to mention an honest assessment prior to work that they can deliver what they promise.

I would be disappointed, and the OP has every right to be.

DD

KonAaron Snake 

As someone considering a repaint of his Cinelli, I really hope dd and the OP will name the party.

Based on his beautiful work n my Sachs, I might use Litton - though Bilenky is closer. Ideally I'd want Spectrum, but $$$.

Drillium Dude

Since it's not my thread, I don't feel it's appropriate for me to name the painter, but the name is given in the original thread linked in the OP's first post of this thread.

DD