KS_rider

Hi, here's the situation. Starting to sort out the build of a mixte for my wife. The mixte has Suntour AR derailleurs front and rear and is currently a 52/40 Suntour Silstar crank with a 6-speed freewheel in back. I'm trying to keep as much of this original as possible, but am stumped in the shifter department.

My wife has zero interest in stem shifters or bar ends. She love's trigger shifters and is okay with grip shifters as a 2nd choice. I think the grip shifter approach seems best due to going to a Soma Sparrow type bar.

I am stumped in trying to solve this in a somewhat elegant way and I don't even know if grip shifters would work with vintage stuff.

(1) With a double crankset how does a gripshift for 3-speed crank work? In other words, do they need to be clicked 2x up and down for it to effectively shift? Or will a single click each way do it? I'm going to guess it will work in either of the two ways...

I tried to find a 2-speed grip shift for the front crank but they seem to be 10-speed compatible only. Will keep looking to see if SRAM made a 2speed grip for 8/9 front chainrings. If yes, I might then be able to find a standalone 6 or 7-speed gripshifter for the rear.

(2) Will a SRAM 6-speed indexed grip shifter swing an old Suntour AR rear derailleur with a Suntour freewheel accurately?

If the answer to (2) = YES, and I convert the 6-speed freewheel to 7-speed freewheel I'm going to presume a 7-speed grip shifter will do just fine, too.


Call me "Stalled Out" for now...thanks!

Bianchigirll 

You need new derailleurs. Sorry the ARs were great derailleurs but while you may be able to mickey mouse the front to work with a gripshifter the rear was not intended to index.

A quick rule of thumb is, no adjusting barrel - preindex design

KS_rider

Ah...infamous bianchigirll...what if I put an inline barrel adjuster where the cable enter the rear derailleur, at the shifter itself or even both places? Would that be okay?

Bianchigirll 

That may or may not work. It is a trial and error sort of thing. The "throw" of the derailleur (how much it moves per click) is what really matters and that was built into the derailleur. It is always worth a try but don't aggravate yourself too long over it.

If she really likes the frame look for a donor bike to salvage the drivetrain from.

puchfinnland

trigger shifters, and yes the deraileur and maybe even the freewheel your may need to swap

Im doing a mixte right now,
had 5 speed and dt shifters on shimano altus deraileur

I respaced and redished, dropped in a dirt cheap new shimano hyperglide 7 speed freewheel,
I found shimano sis indexed thumbshifters-Im hoping it all works out.

do not go near grip shifts, they are junk, In our shop if the client needs new cables or something is defect, we bin the entire mess and install new shimano rapid fire shifters and brake lever combos

I had a thread on sis rapid fire thumbies which are found on walmat cheapy bikes, i see that there is uses for them on vintage builds..maybe someone can find the link to them

PatTheSlat 

You can find non-indexed grip shifters, but they're generally pretty low quality.

KS_rider

Yeah, I was also thinking about something like the Shimano EF65 3x7's shift/brake sets + a new shimano 7-speed freewheel...I really don't want to have to give up the wheelset which has high flange hubs and shiny alloy rims.

squirtdad

I would go for thumb shifters......simple, clean, work well. Look for vintage niceness or just go cheapy sunrace

jdefran

Would you have to give up the wheelset? What's the rear spacing? A 7 speed freewheel would work with a 126mm OLD, right?

acoffin 

Or you could go with shimano six speed freewheel and six speed indexed thumbies. Of course that also requires a new rd most likely. If you live close to a bike coop they would have these items at a very low price.

John E

Same here. Indexing on the front derailleur is a flawed concept, anyway. Find a set of thumbies with a friction mode. My wife always insists on automatic transmissions for our cars, but she had no trouble at all learning bicycle friction shifting.

noglider 

Does anyone agree with me that twist shifters are really annoying? Jeez, I hate them. They look cool, but please, why are they so popular?

Bianchigirll 

Just look for one of these

squirtdad

I agree that they are a pain, in that they are not at all durable. This is based on fixing neighbors, friends and charity bikes. Inside is all plastic and they just wear out fast.

KS_rider

I'm with ya! My wife is still growing her riding confidence. It has been almost 25 years since she has ridden a bike. Right now I've got her on a hybrid I built for her that has 8-speed trigger shifters which she enjoys because it means she can keep her hands in one place and that one place is right where the brakes and shifters are! She's not quite there with taking her hands off the bars, moving them somewhere else, then having to learn the friction shifting touch. I can see her point as she does not want to be a traffic menace weaving all over the road trying to find the right gear.

This mixte came with Suntour stem mount friction shifters and I really hate to bolt on any "modern" looking contrivances to replace them. I do understand her not wanting the drop bar and suicide levers as she is one of those who prefers a more upright position. Thus, the Soma Sparrow bars...

I'm gonna tell her this is just too painful from a vintage lovers and a cost perspective. I mean there is nothing special about this mixte other than it is in fantastic condition for its age. It's a burgundy Puch Pathfinder, made in Japan version, built from hi-ten gas pipe, but it rides beautifully and has nicely aged look to it. Slap on city bars, Jagwire gold cabling and fenders and it will be a nice city cruiser perfect for heading out to lunch or light shopping!

KS_rider

hahaha...looks nice. I had thought about a Soma Buena Vista for her. Reality kicked in as the $'s are not there to build that out.

Right now I have $50 into the mixte. That is the buy price. If I can talk my wife into trying the stem friction shifters that would mean I just need bars, cabling, new tires and tubes, and brake pads. I can probably do all that for <$200 buying the nicer versus bargain priced stuff.

squirtdad

$12.00 for these https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...-shifters.html and put on a modern ramped tooth freewheel and you bet a) hands on bar shifting b) really smooth and easy (adding the modern freewheel makes huge difference in shift ease and qualiyt.... I run a 1x8 setup with sram cassete...just light pressure on the thumbie and you have shifted, bit more work for a front derailer...but you could even go 1x8or9 and simplify more ) Win, win, good budget, happy wife.

KS_rider

It's nice to have choices.

I actually have a pair of Shimano EM MT-50 friction shifter which look pretty much like these and they're just sitting in a box. Also, a pair of 7-speed deore xt thumbies....

I may have to build the bike out, slap it on a trainer and let her try the various "low cost" combinations.

ctmullins 

I have experience here.

Short answer: it might work.

Slightly less short answer: reliable indexing depends on several things. A modern ramped freewheel is a must. The IRDs are really nice; the Shimanos are much cheaper but work really well. With the ramped freewheel you must also use modern compressionless cable housing.

The other factor is matching the shift lever travel with the cable pull needed by the derailleur. This is, as others have stated, a matter of trial and error when using vintage, pre-index-era derailleurs. But I can at least tell you the recipe that worked for me: SunRace seven-speed thumbshifters (from Rivendell - these are Shimano seven-speed compatible), a Shimano Hyperglide seven-speed freewheel (requires a 126-spaced frame and hub), and the original SunTour Seven derailleur that came with the bike (it's purely coincidence that the SunTour is named "Seven"...). Matching the shifters and the freewheel is the obvious part. Finding a vintage derailleur to work with them took a while. I tried every one in my parts box - vintage Campy, vintage SunTour, vintage Shimano; several of each. I was tickled that the winner was the original one!

KS_rider

Thanks, I've got a little bit of enough of everything I will give it a try once I get a shimano 7-speed freewheel. I'll probably try the Shimano 7-speed indexed XT mountain bike shifters first.

Going to use Jagwire pro road racer housing and cables which have worked well for me in the past on all of my other bikes.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=9650&category=4385

Still need to sort out a nice shiny cantilever brake lever. Probably a Shimano BL-R550. It has the shine and some minor reach adjustment.

oddjob2

Some people hate to take a hand off the handlebar, unless to answer a phone call or text.

Oy, I picked up a mid 1990's Specialized Hard Rock, and the ratcheting front grip shift shifter sucks. Clicking all over the place to trim it.

Those Falcons are cheap, I bought a set, but haven't used them yet.

Low end Shimano Tourneys are indexed, a perfect application here, $17.73 a pair. They're foolproof, work okay, and look spendy. I used these to replace gripshifts on a Multitrack 700 with 3 X 7 Deore. Feels like a push button automatic transmission!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055W6IHC/...glink126694-20