Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Any thoughts on what this frame might be? (Possibly Italian)

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Any thoughts on what this frame might be? (Possibly Italian)

Old 06-20-13, 11:51 PM
  #1  
Ancient Mariner
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Indian Wells, CA (near Palm Springs)
Posts: 329

Bikes: Giant Defy Comp 2, Specialized Rockhopper Hard Tail 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Any thoughts on what this frame might be? (Possibly Italian)

I posted this earlier as a complete bike, and didn't get any solid leads on what I have. I did get a very helpful suggestion on using acetone to get the rattle can paint off, so I played around with that, and discovered what looks to be the bikes original paint scheme, although there are no decals or labels that might offer any clues.

There is a coat of grey primer under the white paint, and in some areas, it's absolutely impenetrable. In others, it came right off. I was able to remove enough of it to see what looks like a very nice gold paint underneat. I suspect it's the original color. There are three bands of white paint around the seat tube, separated by (guessing) bare metal that was painted with some sort of clear paint. It's shiny, but does not look like chrome.

I went as far as time, patience, and my supply of acetone allowed. I will give it a little more time with acetone, especially around the lugs. Unless I discover something startling, I'll eventually strip the whole thing. I just want to go at it slowly 'just in case', although I doubt I'll be able to get the grey primer off without destroying whatever's underneath it.

I've disassembled the bike down to the frame, and took a few shots of possible spotting features that might help identify the manufacturer. The seat stays are (to me) unusual, and the lugs are somewhat distinctive.

Any help will really be appreciated.










Last edited by Ancient Mariner; 06-20-13 at 11:55 PM.
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 06-21-13, 12:52 AM
  #2  
onespeedbiker
Retro Grouch
 
onespeedbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 2,210

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
As I mentioned before, your bike appears to have a Thompson Bottom Bracket, which can be English or Italian. As with other bottom Brackets you need to measure the width of the shell; 68mm is English and 70mm is Italian.
onespeedbiker is offline  
Old 06-21-13, 02:53 AM
  #3  
ftwelder
Senior Member
 
ftwelder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: vermont
Posts: 3,091

Bikes: Many

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
That housing guide under the top tube is unusual.
ftwelder is offline  
Old 06-21-13, 09:23 AM
  #4  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 10,902
Mentioned: 305 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2556 Post(s)
Liked 888 Times in 693 Posts
italian production build, possibly contract. lugs, shell and ends are made by Agrati, "Roma" ensemble (ART:000.8020/E/U). have seen Garlatti frames with these under the top tube brake cable guides. Garlatti bicycles also came through badged as Velocina.

tubing set could be either hi-tensile or a quality plain gauge. you could check inside shell to see if tubes are seamless or seamed. a hi-tensile tubeset would probably have a pillar size of 26.0 mm. a quality plain guage set might have a pillar size such as 26.4 mm. frame geometry will likely include a lowish shell height.

wrt a Thompson style BB/CS: fixed cup appears to be a standard italian three-dog threaded cup. if machine a Garlatti original chainset would have been an Agrati cottered steel model.

have not had an opportunity to read earlier thread, you might wish to edit post to include a link to it.

the forum has had numerous threads with good photos of complete Garlatti machines in original livery which you could look at for comparison to your example.

tentative dating: ~1973.
juvela is offline  
Old 06-21-13, 09:32 AM
  #5  
degan
Mote of Dust
 
degan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 791
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Is that a stamped dropout with a derailleur hanger?
degan is offline  
Old 06-21-13, 10:51 AM
  #6  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 8,030

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1078 Post(s)
Liked 510 Times in 364 Posts
My first thought, Bianchi.
dddd is offline  
Old 06-21-13, 11:14 AM
  #7  
onespeedbiker
Retro Grouch
 
onespeedbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 2,210

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by juvela View Post
italian production build, possibly contract. lugs, shell and ends are made by Agrati, "Roma" ensemble (ART:000.8020/E/U). have seen Garlatti frames with these under the top tube brake cable guides. Garlatti bicycles also came through badged as Velocina.

tubing set could be either hi-tensile or a quality plain gauge. you could check inside shell to see if tubes are seamless or seamed. a hi-tensile tubeset would probably have a pillar size of 26.0 mm. a quality plain guage set might have a pillar size such as 26.4 mm. frame geometry will likely include a lowish shell height.

wrt a Thompson style BB/CS: fixed cup appears to be a standard italian three-dog threaded cup. if machine a Garlatti original chainset would have been an Agrati cottered steel model.

have not had an opportunity to read earlier thread, you might wish to edit post to include a link to it.

the forum has had numerous threads with good photos of complete Garlatti machines in original livery which you could look at for comparison to your example.

tentative dating: ~1973.
My bad on the Thompson BB, I was thinking of another post; BB is standard Italian. There is little doubt you are right; I looked at several Garlatti frames and they are nearly identical. Here is the OP's original post. https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-It?highlight=

Below is a photo of a Garlatti headtube




Attached Images
File Type: jpg
garlatti_road_bike_(3).JPG (57.9 KB, 122 views)

Last edited by onespeedbiker; 06-21-13 at 11:23 AM.
onespeedbiker is offline  
Old 06-21-13, 01:13 PM
  #8  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 10,902
Mentioned: 305 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2556 Post(s)
Liked 888 Times in 693 Posts
Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
My bad on the Thompson BB, I was thinking of another post; BB is standard Italian. There is little doubt you are right; I looked at several Garlatti frames and they are nearly identical. Here is the OP's original post. https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-It?highlight=

Below is a photo of a Garlatti headtube




thank you onespeedbiker for the link to the earlier thread. ;^D

in looking at the photos there it appears chainset is an OMG rather than an Agrati.

wrt to "an italian frame with a Thompson chainset" this came up recently in the discussion regarding the K-Mart Chiorda frame. perhaps this is what you were thinking of...

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ighlight=kmart

a tip for Ancient Mariner:

have seen two or three of these bicycles with a broken right hand dropout. they fail at the back of the axle slot. prior to building up the bike it might be wise to check the tab alignment with a tool such as the Campag https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?...jor=6&minor=17

and the dropout alignment at the same time.

certainly not worth purchase of an expensive tool just for this one use. perhaps it might be worth a trip to the local bike shop.

checking and setting the tab and dropout alignment is no guarantee against a dropout failure but it might improve the odds a bit...

the gold colour still showing on your frame matches some of the photos that have been posted on the forum of complete examples in original finish. iirc RandyJ has posted some of these.

the low shell on these machines gives them a nice "roll." set up a friend with one years ago and he was pleased with it.

best wishes with your bike!
juvela is offline  
Old 06-21-13, 01:25 PM
  #9  
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,516
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 679 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 49 Posts
4 to 5 pounds without the fork seeing it's not a high end frame.
rekmeyata is offline  
Old 06-22-13, 12:02 AM
  #10  
Ancient Mariner
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Indian Wells, CA (near Palm Springs)
Posts: 329

Bikes: Giant Defy Comp 2, Specialized Rockhopper Hard Tail 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you all. That was extremely helpful, and looking at the pictures of Garlattis online, certainly seems to confirm that. This is precisely the kind of information I was looking for. It tells me how I have to proceed with stripping the paint. It appears there's a very good chance the lugs and stays might be plated. I'll approach them very cautiously just in case it can be salvaged.

There are enough of what appear to be the original components that I should be able to put it back together in its original configuration, which is what I hope to do. The only things I really question are the saddle and seat post, and I'm not too anal about those. I don't like what was on the bike (steel post and saddle clamp), although one or two pictures I see suggest that might have been original.

The original wheels had the high-flange hubs, with steel rims and galvanized spokes. I've already rebuilt the wheels with aluminum rims and stainless steel spokes, ao clearly I'm not going for pure authenticity, but the original rims were pretty rusty, and the galvanized spokes looked really bad.

I'll post more photos of the frame as I continue with the paint removal, especially if I discover anything interesting.
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 06-22-13, 09:13 AM
  #11  
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,516
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 679 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 49 Posts
May not be a high end bike but it may be fun to restore.
rekmeyata is offline  
Old 06-22-13, 10:23 AM
  #12  
Ancient Mariner
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Indian Wells, CA (near Palm Springs)
Posts: 329

Bikes: Giant Defy Comp 2, Specialized Rockhopper Hard Tail 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just for confirmation, I checked the BB width, and it's 70mm. I've been a little under the weather, and finally got a pass from Nurse Ratched for enough time to go out into the garage long enough to remove the drive side cup, and measure the shell.
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 06-23-13, 02:23 PM
  #13  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 10,902
Mentioned: 305 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2556 Post(s)
Liked 888 Times in 693 Posts
if you would like to replace the steel saddle pillar and clamp one candidate for an alloy saddle pillar with integral clamp that would be both Italian and contemporaneous, without breaking the bank, would be a late type Nitor.

if unable to locate a 26.0mm example, a 26.2mm or 26.4mm could be used by reaming the seat tube to accomodate it.



https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...13dc9&Enum=105

please post again when Nurse Ratched has permitted you to complete the project. ;^D
juvela is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
danimal92sport
Classic & Vintage
5
05-01-18 12:00 PM
estebe
Classic & Vintage
36
04-10-18 09:31 AM
non-fixie
Classic & Vintage
13
06-04-14 08:55 PM
atomasz
Classic & Vintage
36
03-15-13 01:26 PM
burcak
Classic & Vintage
17
01-29-12 11:38 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.