I've lost my nerve on descents
07-08-13, 11:14 PM
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The descents are one of the reasons I like riding so much. I figure it's still way safer than riding a motorcycle. I think if people would get an hour instruction on descending, they would do a lot better. I think it was mentioned before, but counter steering, using the drops, keeping a light grip on the bars, raising your inside leg, looking through the turns applying braking gradually and smoothly can be worked. On a bicycle I don't see any reason to complete all your braking before the turn, it will slow the corner speed too much and you don't have a very powerful engine to gain it back. Also the bike will lean a lot more than you think it can.
07-08-13, 11:28 PM
#52
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+1 I used to do crazy, stupid stuff on a bicycle as a kid. Unbelievable, somehow I survived. I lost that "nerve" decades ago, and it "ain't comin' back".
There is a term we use in motorcycling: There are OLD motorcyclists. There are BOLD motorcyclists. But there are NO OLD BOLD motorcyclists.
There is a term we use in motorcycling: There are OLD motorcyclists. There are BOLD motorcyclists. But there are NO OLD BOLD motorcyclists.
Fastest I've ever gone? Rabbit Ears Pass, Steamboat side... Maxed the CatEye Micro out at 61 MPH.
Yes, I've lost my nerve out on the road, too. Slower is better; you'll miss all of the scenery!
Last edited by oldskoolwrench; 07-08-13 at 11:34 PM.
07-09-13, 12:25 AM
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There's a reason the 'School of Hard Knocks' got it's name... 
And remember, this stuff happens to pro riders (arguably the best bike handlers) as well. Have any of you noticed Andy Schleck's performance at the Tour this year? It's taken him how long? A year at least, since he fractured his hip at the Dauphiné, to recover his confidence and be able to ride like that again?
This might also amuse you, btw... a friend of mine actually got a speeding ticket while descending Parley's Canyon in Utah, on the freeway, in the emergency lane; it's the main route between Park City and SLC, but it's accessible about halfway down via back route that summits over a neighboring canyon just to the north. It got dismissed because the traffic judge wouldn't believe anyone could go 60mph on a bicycle.
And remember, this stuff happens to pro riders (arguably the best bike handlers) as well. Have any of you noticed Andy Schleck's performance at the Tour this year? It's taken him how long? A year at least, since he fractured his hip at the Dauphiné, to recover his confidence and be able to ride like that again?
This might also amuse you, btw... a friend of mine actually got a speeding ticket while descending Parley's Canyon in Utah, on the freeway, in the emergency lane; it's the main route between Park City and SLC, but it's accessible about halfway down via back route that summits over a neighboring canyon just to the north. It got dismissed because the traffic judge wouldn't believe anyone could go 60mph on a bicycle.
Last edited by DIMcyclist; 07-09-13 at 12:42 AM.
07-09-13, 12:29 AM
#54
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I descend as fast as I can, but all the hills I'm on, I've ridden a dozen times or more and I know the pavement like the back of my hand. If I ever find myself on a new hill, I'd probably be more cautious. Otherwise, the only thing that slows me down is if I'm on 'vintage' tires, which is all too often, I hate to admit.
I've had a couple back tires blow out on me at 30+, but never a front tire, thank G_d.
I've had a couple back tires blow out on me at 30+, but never a front tire, thank G_d.
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
07-09-13, 12:44 AM
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I've lost my mojo too. Two things contributed to this; 1) a realization that at 62, my body doesn't heal as quickly as it did in my youth. Having lost both of my parents the past few years, and my two youngest sibling out of six, I'm very aware of my own mortality.
And, 2) early last Spring, a year ago on a descent that was not particularly technical, my new bike exhibited the "death wobble". For those who don't know, the "death wobble" is the name given to violent front wheel side-to-side oscillation when a bike is in a free-wheel, high-speed descent. In my case, it wasn't all that fast, only about 35 mph. I'm pretty sure I hit an expansion crack in the asphalt while going around a curve, which set off the oscillation. I was able to recover...somehow. It was "touch and go". But for awhile there, I was eyeing the embankment of the road cut, thinking I'd do less damage to myself by going into the road cut sideways than sliding along the asphalt at +30 mph. (I've since done my research and discovered the best way to recover from the "death wobble" is to press a knee along the top tube. Still, that bike is pretty squirrely and I only take in on rides where I won't be doing any big descents. It sure is a fast, quick bike, however. It just wants to go!)
- - - - -
No bears, but did see a mountain lion once. I stopped right quick before his pursuit instinct could kick in. Maybe he was just lazy as it was the middle of a hot afternoon and he didn't have much energy. Thing was about 20 feet away from me when I spotted him. Was just watching me. He sure had a huge head!
And, 2) early last Spring, a year ago on a descent that was not particularly technical, my new bike exhibited the "death wobble". For those who don't know, the "death wobble" is the name given to violent front wheel side-to-side oscillation when a bike is in a free-wheel, high-speed descent. In my case, it wasn't all that fast, only about 35 mph. I'm pretty sure I hit an expansion crack in the asphalt while going around a curve, which set off the oscillation. I was able to recover...somehow. It was "touch and go". But for awhile there, I was eyeing the embankment of the road cut, thinking I'd do less damage to myself by going into the road cut sideways than sliding along the asphalt at +30 mph. (I've since done my research and discovered the best way to recover from the "death wobble" is to press a knee along the top tube. Still, that bike is pretty squirrely and I only take in on rides where I won't be doing any big descents. It sure is a fast, quick bike, however. It just wants to go!)
- - - - -
No bears, but did see a mountain lion once. I stopped right quick before his pursuit instinct could kick in. Maybe he was just lazy as it was the middle of a hot afternoon and he didn't have much energy. Thing was about 20 feet away from me when I spotted him. Was just watching me. He sure had a huge head!
07-09-13, 05:53 AM
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Fastest I've gone is about 35mph, I think what I will end up doing when that day comes is say "Hey you gotta stay within the speed limit" to justify my wussiness 
07-09-13, 06:16 AM
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Countersteering is how all two tracked vehicles steer, bicycles or motorcycles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
Any other concept of two wheeled steering is sheer nonsense.
Try teaching it in the Motorcycle Safety Foundation basics course along w/ Front Wheel braking; rigid resistance followed by "Oh, that works".
OP,
Take your time getting back up to speed & Relax, most speed wobbles are caused by rider's death grip.
Descend at you own speed, let the bike work under you, it will follow your eyes.
Look through the corner, elbows bent, weight down & forward, drop your inside elbow & point your knee.
Shift weight back for more front brake if really cooking like LeMond is doing in the pic.
Get your braking done before the corner, look through the corner push inside to steer and relax.
In slow & out fast gives time margin to correct your line for bad stuff in the apex.
-Bandera
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
Any other concept of two wheeled steering is sheer nonsense.
Try teaching it in the Motorcycle Safety Foundation basics course along w/ Front Wheel braking; rigid resistance followed by "Oh, that works".
OP,
Take your time getting back up to speed & Relax, most speed wobbles are caused by rider's death grip.
Descend at you own speed, let the bike work under you, it will follow your eyes.
Look through the corner, elbows bent, weight down & forward, drop your inside elbow & point your knee.
Shift weight back for more front brake if really cooking like LeMond is doing in the pic.
Get your braking done before the corner, look through the corner push inside to steer and relax.
In slow & out fast gives time margin to correct your line for bad stuff in the apex.
-Bandera
07-09-13, 07:23 AM
#60
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If I can't see around the next bend, I am a total wimp on descents. Especially if the road is (or might be) wet. My friends criticize me for this, and I can't blame them. On group rides I am often the first to reach the top of a hill, and the last to reach the bottom.
If I can see far enough, though, it's not so bad. Especially if the road is straight. A long straight descent on a heavy, stable bike, is great. I got my fully loaded Trek 720 up to 47.2 coming down off Livingston Pass in Montana in August 1983. It felt great. I wished I had higher gears!
More recently, I've got my tandem up over 40 lots of times, up over 45 sometimes, though not over 47. That bike just loves to go fast!
I have to say, my Basso --which may be my lightest bike-- also likes to go fast. The first time I took it out on a good ride in the hills, I thought there was something wrong with the derailleur, wouldn't shift into a higher gear; when I realized I was spinning out in the highest gear, and my speedometer showed I was going 42 pretty effortlessly. I was impressed.
If I can see far enough, though, it's not so bad. Especially if the road is straight. A long straight descent on a heavy, stable bike, is great. I got my fully loaded Trek 720 up to 47.2 coming down off Livingston Pass in Montana in August 1983. It felt great. I wished I had higher gears!
More recently, I've got my tandem up over 40 lots of times, up over 45 sometimes, though not over 47. That bike just loves to go fast!
I have to say, my Basso --which may be my lightest bike-- also likes to go fast. The first time I took it out on a good ride in the hills, I thought there was something wrong with the derailleur, wouldn't shift into a higher gear; when I realized I was spinning out in the highest gear, and my speedometer showed I was going 42 pretty effortlessly. I was impressed.
07-09-13, 07:36 AM
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I haven't lost my nerve yet, but I haven't been in too many serious crashes nor have I reached the age of reason, a mortgage or offspring. I like to bomb it on the downhills since I can stay with most climbers on the uphill, keep a decent pace on the downhill, but absolutely suck on the flat. That's what you get from being skinny and a lazy trainer.
07-09-13, 08:39 AM
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This might also amuse you, btw... a friend of mine actually got a speeding ticket while descending Parley's Canyon in Utah, on the freeway, in the emergency lane; it's the main route between Park City and SLC, but it's accessible about halfway down via back route that summits over a neighboring canyon just to the north. It got dismissed because the traffic judge wouldn't believe anyone could go 60mph on a bicycle.
I couldn't quite believe it, but....
BTW, I never did, and never would, cycle down Parley's. Immigration Canyon (to the north) many times but...on I-80?
No way.
07-09-13, 09:03 AM
#63
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07-09-13, 09:10 AM
#64
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This was the first one of a series, but certainly not the scariest. Inverness is off in the distance to the far left. Loch Ness is over my shoulder on the left about 2 miles back. I went straight down that road. (The date is off by a year: 2011 not 2010)
07-09-13, 09:45 AM
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I hasten to add that clip is in jest. I do feel bad for Pinot. You can't simply tell someone with a phobia to HTFU. My wife has been dealing with a fear of bridges (and we live across the Bay Bridge from San Francisco), and I know phobias are not an easy thing to shake.
07-09-13, 10:57 AM
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That Pinot story seems to be the charicature of a French existentialist: a mountian specialist that can't descend, constantly worried about the pointlesness of it all.
but holy **** have you seen that clip from the same descent from that Australian guy who passes a whole bunch as if they were standing still, at 80 km/h without even near the brakes?
but holy **** have you seen that clip from the same descent from that Australian guy who passes a whole bunch as if they were standing still, at 80 km/h without even near the brakes?
07-09-13, 11:03 AM
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But this was easily 15 - 20 years ago... Immigration was a usual ride for us, too; I guess we did it maybe once or twice a month in summer, before the heat of the day set in; one of the best parts being a stop at Crompton's for a beer or a burger on the way home. If you took the switchback descent over the back from the summit (which is an awesome descent, btw) and followed it around the reservoir, it came out kinda by East Canyon's country club. From there you had the choice: either climb back up the way you came (Nnooooo! -- Suffering!!), or continue downhill into SLC along the freeway (utter madness!). On that particular occasion, my friend was a little too beat for the climb and decided to take his chances on the descent. Once-- and never again.
Last edited by DIMcyclist; 07-09-13 at 11:14 AM.
07-09-13, 11:09 AM
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I ride a couple of bikes that have ancient aluminum (i.e. not very good) brakes, and I would be foolish to trust them. It not easy to forget that distrust when riding a different bike. But the important thing, for me, is being able to see what's up ahead. I don't like to go screaming around a turn if I don't know what's on the other side of it.
07-09-13, 11:18 AM
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This idea may prove to be very useful. On my recent long ride, I had my iphone in my back pocket, recording my ride with GPS. I could take it out from time to time, but I couldn't watch it in real time, at least not at high speed.
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07-09-13, 11:28 AM
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I'm going to try to measure the amount ahead I require of myself, and I'll measure in time, not distance. It probably takes about four seconds to stop a bike going at top speed, so I ought to see that far ahead.
TimmyT, I would not recommend to rhm or anyone else to improve his willingness or ability to descend. It's a personal choice. If I encouraged someone and he went faster and crashed as a result, I'd feel really bad.
Eddy Merckx was famous for being a great cyclist, and he excelled in everything, as far as I know, including descents.
TimmyT, I would not recommend to rhm or anyone else to improve his willingness or ability to descend. It's a personal choice. If I encouraged someone and he went faster and crashed as a result, I'd feel really bad.
Eddy Merckx was famous for being a great cyclist, and he excelled in everything, as far as I know, including descents.
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07-09-13, 11:46 AM
#71
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The fastest I've ever hit was 46, coasting! I started feathering the brakes about 42/43, and decided 46.2 was fast enough. The bike never flinched though. Not a wobble, or a hiccup, nothing. It was a 2005 Scott Speedster S4, aluminum frame. Steady as a rock the entire time.,,,,BD
Like this one... But it had Tiagra with a triple...
https://media.skateboard.com.au/forum...ntitled914.jpg
Like this one... But it had Tiagra with a triple...
https://media.skateboard.com.au/forum...ntitled914.jpg
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07-09-13, 11:57 AM
#72
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If someone doesn't want to descend fast, that's a separate issue; and I respect that. Equipment failure is a legitimate concern, too.
I've ridden with rhm enough to know that he can do it if he wants, but it's up to him. Note that I didn't recommend it to everyone on this list. I've only ridden with a handful of people.
07-09-13, 12:21 PM
#73
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I getcha.
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07-09-13, 12:26 PM
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On a curve at 70 MPH this morning on the way to work, the motorcycle's front end started a slight wobble. Which convinced me to go ahead and replace that worn out front tire that I've been a cheapo about.
So old rubber isn't the best for grab on the turns- on bicycles either.
So old rubber isn't the best for grab on the turns- on bicycles either.
07-09-13, 12:44 PM
#75
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Didn't read the whole thread, but I'm not a fan of going fast downhill. I gear my bikes 52/13 at the top; and if I spin out, that's fast enough for me. The risk and severity of an accident are rising exponentially with speed, especially downhill, since the energy absorption capability of your brakes is being counteracted by gravity. Notice how big trucks & trains slow way down going down a steep grade? There you have it from a mechanical engineer.