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Campy Nuovo Record Hubs, how big a freewheel can you put on?

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Campy Nuovo Record Hubs, how big a freewheel can you put on?

Old 07-08-13, 08:51 PM
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Campy Nuovo Record Hubs, how big a freewheel can you put on?

I have a set of Campagnolo Nuovo Record hubs. I currently has a 6 speed freewheel attached. I have seen 8 and 9 speed freewheels. Will these work with my 126mm hub? And is there anything else I need to consider. Is it just smaller spacing between the gears, so I need a narrower chain? Can I use a Nuovo Record derailleur if I am not indexing? Since I want a big cog, may need to add a longer cage, like the ones from Soma. Any help appreciated. May use for light touring, long rides.



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Old 07-08-13, 09:12 PM
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It's going to come down to how much weight and how many miles that a given axle extension length will withstand.

Your hub will accept only a 7-speed freewheel.

8 and 9-speed freewheels need longer axles and leave more of the axle's length unsupported. Only a lightweight should consider these, although the axle's strength can be increased a bit with a solid axle in place of the hollow one.
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Old 07-08-13, 09:12 PM
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Anything more than 7-speeds on a freewheel and you risk bending the axle. That's why they went to freehubs for 8+ speeds: The bearings are farther outboard so there''s less stress on the axle. There are decent wide-range 7-speed freewheels that could meet your needs, and could be spaced to work on a 126mm OLD axle.
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Old 07-08-13, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
Anything more than 7-speeds on a freewheel and you risk bending the axle. That's why they went to freehubs for 8+ speeds: The bearings are farther outboard so there''s less stress on the axle. There are decent wide-range 7-speed freewheels that could meet your needs, and could be spaced to work on a 126mm OLD axle.
Originally Posted by dddd View Post
It's going to come down to how much weight and how many miles that a given axle extension length will withstand.

Your hub will accept only a 7-speed freewheel.

8 and 9-speed freewheels need longer axles and leave more of the axle's length unsupported. Only a lightweight should consider these, although the axle's strength can be increased a bit with a solid axle in place of the hollow one.
Thanks guys, kind for what I thought, but was not sure. I should be able to go to 7-speed without a problem though, right? I keep wresting with keeping the bike vintage versus a new wheelset and triple crank, though I know I can get a Nuovo Record Triple if I am vigilant and/or willing to pay up.
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Old 07-09-13, 05:18 AM
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IRD freewheels screw on further back on the hub, and SACHS freewheels fit further out. Shimanos sit in the middle. If you want a 7 speed freewheel on that hub I would try an IRD one.

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Old 07-09-13, 05:19 AM
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I agree, I used an 8spd Sachs FW on my C-Rec hubs for a few years, and you will eventually have axle issues. I do somewhat disagree that it is strictly a lightweight thing. I have never been accused of being a lightweight and used this setup successfully for to two years and maybe 1000 miles or so. Riding style and surfaces is just as if not more important. If your going to commute on this rig stick with 7, if this is your Sunday go to meeting bike and you want to try and match the gearing to another bike give it a try, since you already have the FW.

Also there is a pic somewhere on here where somebody like 23skidoo slides a cartridge type bearing over the axle spacers to support the FW better.

These are nice but can Henry file a patent infringement lawsuit?

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Old 07-09-13, 05:36 AM
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This is a 6-speed with a 34T on a NR hub. The RD is a NR with Henry's cage. It shifts about as well as a Campy Rally (as I've heard it - I've never owned a Rally), but it is not as precise as any garden-variety slant-parallelogram Suntour. On the other hand, it sure shifts with style. As for weight, smaller chanring and cogs could get the same low gear with less metal, but it would mean replacing the NR crank. For this bike, style wins. It's still the lightest bike in the house.

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Old 07-09-13, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
These are nice but can Henry file a patent infringement lawsuit?

Those look like Bob Freeman's, Bianchigirll. Which Bob patterned off of Campy's Rally cages. If anyone is going to sue I would think it might be Campy, but they probably have bigger fish to fry. BTW, I have a set of these that I'll likely never use if anyone is interested, please PM me.
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Old 07-09-13, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
It's going to come down to how much weight and how many miles that a given axle extension length will withstand.

Your hub will accept only a 7-speed freewheel.

8 and 9-speed freewheels need longer axles and leave more of the axle's length unsupported. Only a lightweight should consider these, although the axle's strength can be increased a bit with a solid axle in place of the hollow one.
I've ridden a lot of miles on hubs spaced at 126 mm that I've respaced by adding a new axle and axle spacers so that they work with a 130 mm rear drop outs (I have 3 bikes currently set up that way). I like to add 3 mm of spacers to the non-freewheel side and 1 mm to the freewheel side and redish the wheel. You get a stronger wheel that way (in that the wheel has less dish) but I only run 7 speed freewheels.

While I've had zero problems with 1 mm xtra spacing on the freewheel side and using wheels manufacturing rear axles (which are pretty strong), what you say makes a lot of sense. I may have to rethink through how I've set up a few of my bikes because breaking a rear axle is a serious drag.
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Old 07-09-13, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Angelo View Post
IRD freewheels screw on further back on the hub, and SACHS freewheels fit further out. Shimanos sit in the middle. If you want a 7 speed freewheel on that hub I would try an IRD one.
This is a good point. I've had issues with Sachs 7 spd freewheels on 126 mm wheels with chain rub.
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Old 07-09-13, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by crandress View Post
Thanks guys, kind for what I thought, but was not sure. I should be able to go to 7-speed without a problem though, right? I keep wresting with keeping the bike vintage versus a new wheelset and triple crank, though I know I can get a Nuovo Record Triple if I am vigilant and/or willing to pay up.
The campy triple only takes a 32 I think and I don't know how easy it is to get chain rings for it. Velo Orange grand cru cranks (double or triple) would not look out of place on a vintage bike: https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...cranksets.html. Tough choice but I'd go with what makes the most sense gearing wise on a bike I rode on a regular basis.
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Old 07-09-13, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
The campy triple only takes a 32 I think and I don't know how easy it is to get chain rings for it. Velo Orange grand cru cranks (double or triple) would not look out of place on a vintage bike: https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...cranksets.html. Tough choice but I'd go with what makes the most sense gearing wise on a bike I rode on a regular basis.
Rings are readily available, the 100bcd inner rings are kind of pricey on eBay the outers are run of the mill 144bcd's.
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Old 07-09-13, 11:19 AM
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Thanks for all the input. I am looking at my alternatives for this bike, a 1980 Mercian Vincitore touring frame. Part of me says upgrade to a cassette wheels and newer components and part of me says keep it vintage or at least a vintage look. I not so cash constrained that I can't keep this vintage and buy a Soma Double Cross, Surly Long Haul Trucker or something from Rivendell, but then this bike probably wouldn't get ridden much, so what's the point?? Bikes are meant to be ridden after all...
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Old 07-09-13, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
The campy triple only takes a 32 I think and I don't know how easy it is to get chain rings for it. Velo Orange grand cru cranks (double or triple) would not look out of place on a vintage bike: https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...cranksets.html. Tough choice but I'd go with what makes the most sense gearing wise on a bike I rode on a regular basis.
I have looked at the Grand Cru, but I also saw these IRD cranks at Soma. They are very reminiscent of a Campy Nuovo Record crankset.

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Old 07-09-13, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by crandress View Post
I have looked at the Grand Cru, but I also saw these IRD cranks at Soma. They are very reminiscent of a Campy Nuovo Record crankset.

I think this would be a great choice for your Mercian if you want to keep it as a rider over all sorts of terrain. I did something similar when I rebuilt my Bridgestone RB-1. The bike is more modern than your Mercian but I kept the 7 on the back and went with a triple up front. You get great gearing that way and it is a relatively inexpensive change (as opposed to also spreading the rear triangle, new wheels, cassette, derailleurs, shifters, etc.)
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Old 07-09-13, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I think this would be a great choice for your Mercian if you want to keep it as a rider over all sorts of terrain. I did something similar when I rebuilt my Bridgestone RB-1. The bike is more modern than your Mercian but I kept the 7 on the back and went with a triple up front. You get great gearing that way and it is a relatively inexpensive change (as opposed to also spreading the rear triangle, new wheels, cassette, derailleurs, shifters, etc.)
One problem I have is that the current wheels have racing rims, so I can't put tires bigger than 25mm. I want bigger tires (35-38mm) for comfort an touring (There is plenty of room for bigger tires and fenders). I have an extra set of 27 inch wheels that also Campy Nuovo Record hubs. So my dilema is, do I have them built up with new and/or wider rims to support bigger tires, or buy new modern wheels. Looking at the cost to build up my hubs, I can spend a little more to get Velo Orange touring hubs or some Ultegra/Dyad wheels built up. Not too concerned about spreading the frame as it measured 128mm when I took the wheel off and measured, so I would probably just pop the 130mm in there since it is so close. Though I will measure to make sure both sides are still aligned. If I went to 135mm, definitely have it re-spaced professionally. Prefer not to do that so if I want to put the current wheels back on, I could.
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Old 07-09-13, 12:18 PM
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I'm a big fan of bigger tires as well for comfort. I've never had an issue running bigger tires on "racing" rims. A lot depends on the rim and tire combo obviously but I've run 28c tires for a long time on relatively narrow rims. My recent Bridgestone RB-1 build is set up this way. My Soma double cross is set up with 38c tires and relatively narrow campy racing rims as well. Personally I just throw a tire on the rim and if it doesn't blow off once I pump it to pressure, I'll ride it. This may not be the smartest thing to do and I guess I'm being a lot more cavalier than most folks here (and I know I should read the tech info before doing this) but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the tires you can safely mount on your current rims. In any case, I've been riding this combo for well over a year on the Soma with no problem.
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Old 07-09-13, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I'm a big fan of bigger tires as well for comfort. I've never had an issue running bigger tires on "racing" rims. A lot depends on the rim and tire combo obviously but I've run 28c tires for a long time on relatively narrow rims. My recent Bridgestone RB-1 build is set up this way. My Soma double cross is set up with 38c tires and relatively narrow campy racing rims as well. Personally I just throw a tire on the rim and if it doesn't blow off once I pump it to pressure, I'll ride it. This may not be the smartest thing to do and I guess I'm being a lot more cavalier than most folks here (and I know I should read the tech info before doing this) but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the tires you can safely mount on your current rims. In any case, I've been riding this combo for well over a year on the Soma with no problem.
Which Campy rims? Mine have an interior width of 13mm which, according to Sheldon Browns formula, will support 26mm max. But I have heard other say to throw whatever. I suppose it can't hurt to try it out since I could use the tires on new rims anyway.
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Old 07-09-13, 01:54 PM
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I'm using a set of campy omegas that measure 19mm on the outside. This is the RB-1 build thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...779-RB-1-Build

I'd put 28c on your rims and see what happens. I doubt you'll have a problem. I've run fat tires (fatter than a 28c) on narrow racing rims for a long, long time with no problems. But maybe someone on this site will show me the errors of my ways, .
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Old 07-09-13, 02:15 PM
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FWIW, I've raced many years on (13.4mm inside, 20.5mm outside) Mavic MA2 rims, using 45mm knobbies for XC and 38mm semi-knobbies for CX.

I've never had a bead burp off even at low pressures (~45psi).

For road riding, my current fave is and has been 22-23mm rims with 25c tires, run at ~80psi for this 155lb rider.
This proves fast, efficient and comfortable, if not terribly light, and I'm liking the look of polished Mod58 rims on old Phil hubs.

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Old 07-09-13, 02:18 PM
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I think with the wider gearing and fatter tires what Crandress is really asking is "should I screw with this bike or do I have justification to buy another bike with touring gears?"
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Old 07-09-13, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I'm using a set of campy omegas that measure 19mm on the outside. This is the RB-1 build thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...779-RB-1-Build

I'd put 28c on your rims and see what happens. I doubt you'll have a problem. I've run fat tires (fatter than a 28c) on narrow racing rims for a long, long time with no problems. But maybe someone on this site will show me the errors of my ways, .
I may just try a 35mm to see how it does...

BTW, I like your Bridgestone. I have an MB-3 I have been monkeying with that I bought in 1990 or 91.
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Old 07-21-13, 01:42 PM
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One more questions guys, if I maintain my spacing and upgrade from a six to seven speed freewheel, realizing I may need to add a spacer, does the wheel need to be re-dished?

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Old 07-21-13, 02:16 PM
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I have a Sachs 8/13-30 hanging on the wall, it came on a wheel....WITH a broken axle (hollow) salvaged the wheel....don't know if I will EVER find a use for that Sachs....from what I read...I don't TRUST 8 speed Freewheels! :-O
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Old 07-21-13, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RubberLegs View Post
I have a Sachs 8/13-30 hanging on the wall, it came on a wheel....WITH a broken axle (hollow) salvaged the wheel....don't know if I will EVER find a use for that Sachs....from what I read...I don't TRUST 8 speed Freewheels! :-O
Yeah, the 8 speed was ruled out. Now I am just wanting to know if going from a 6 speed to a 7 speed freewheel requires the wheel to be re-dished. I will probably just go with a 6 speed, but an extra gear could be handy. The big think I will do is go to a triple in the front and getting a bigger large gear in the back.
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