Bandera

All,

There is considerable interest in this forum in Classic & Vintage cycling equipment, some that has been kept in service by the original owner that’s turned C&V by attrition, some that has been carefully sought out and returned to use as period original (patina & all) or fully restored to “like new” condition.

I found a like new 1987 copy of Greg LeMond’s book “Complete Book of Bicycling” that on re-reading is an excellent compendium on period frame and component selection and rider fitting. Before sleuthing out one’s Grail Bike it would be well worth this read to get a machine that is actually the correct size for you and equip it with not just any period correct components but ones that match your body and are set to the proper seat height, stem length, bar width etc.

Chapter 118 “How to fit your bike” goes into detail on how the “French Formula for Perfect Fit” developed by coach Cyrille Guimard is done in practice, and why. There is a nice down to earth history of racing fit and a specific comparison to the “Eddie B.” system we learned at USCF rider & coaching clinics back when. Like any system it has to be fine-tuned by each rider but properly applied one would have a C&V machine that fits and a rider set-up in the elbows bent/relaxed/powerful/efficient style of a World Champion and three time TDF winner. How bad could that be?

Excellent pics of contemporary riders and comments on their styles/fit as well.

My favorite quote: “When I turned pro, French coach Cyrille Guimard raised my saddle by an inch and a half.”

-Bandera

Italuminium

Nice, I'd like to read that. Fit is a funny thing, too. People of all era's have been extremely certain all the time, yet extremely different in approaches and results. The other day I saw pics of a fully computerized fit setting of Gilbert and Albert in a lab in Belgium; I wondered if that offered an ultimate solution to fit or just another opinion.

scozim 

I've got a copy of the book and more or less use it for my fit. That said I also have bikes ranging from 52 to 56 cm so I do have to tweak things a little. I keep a spreadsheet of individual bikes with key measurements to try and set them up as close to the same as possible.

Bandera

I paid $6 w/ shipping for a hardcover that had never been cracked open, NOS if it was a Campi component. My original copy is still on the shelf of the old shop gathering dust, it now has patina.

Optimal Fit is a moving target with riders searching for the perfect balance of handling, power delivery and comfort while maximizing the advances in hardware technology available to them. Guimard & LeMond certainly kicked it up a notch back then and to me the result was an elegant era of technology and performance that brought the USA suddenly to the top of world road racing. To me no one looks better on his bike than LeMond.

-Bandera

Bandera

Same here.
With allowance for the increased girth and lack of flexibility that comes w/ age the fit is essentially the same 20 years apart, w/ less drop.

-Bandera

12mphflatout

I have this book on loan from the library at the moment -- so far, it's pretty good.

Gravity Aided

My library threw their copy in the sale last year. I bought it. It sure is a great book. The first few chapters outline Greg LeMonds' early career and the people who helped him. P.138 shows Greg LeMond on a Huffy.

iab

Or, you can do it online, now, for free.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...&SITE.CODE=RDB

repechage

And from the title I thought one or two would comment on the stoutness of Greg as seen at this years Tour.

He could use some decent mileage per week.

repechage

I have two bikes from almost 40 years ago. The drop to the bars is almost the same, the extension has reduced a cm. Gravity strikes back, or should I say, one's back.

DIMcyclist

He's not Merckx (who is? Sagan maybe?), but as time goes on Greg LeMond remains pretty awesome... heard a rumor that he and Hinault actually rode up the Alpe d'Huez together this morning prior to the start of today's stage in the Tour, apparently just for old times' sake.

top506

Yeah, well I'm not in my late '80s form either.....

Top

Chombi

All my bikes since the 80's had been set up the Cyrille Guimard/Gitane team way. Low bars/high saddle and long stem extension to flatten my back when on the drops. Kinda extreme compared to how bikes are set up these days, and people might think it hurts to have to ride with such a set up but I'm so used to it that I can ride for many miles without any discomfort at all.......

old's'cool

Yeah, I hear ya', I just leave my wobbly bits at home in a jar for those longer rides...

callig

This is how Lemond had his bike set up in 85 to win the tour

bikemig 

I really like the info on bike fitting in the book and have recommended it to others. I still use this as a guide in setting up my bikes.

Chombi

Looks like I might fit on Greg's bike pretty well...

look171

My set up is still the same as it was in 1985. Typical long stem and seat back a little for more power just like LeMond's I suppose. One thing I do like is the italian frames. They generally run a tiny little shorter top tube then the French. I am seeing lots of shallow drop bars and shorter stems on many bikes today. One has to wonder that are they being set up that way for sport riding not racing because people are breaking their backs and tired necks. MY buddy got fitted (400 big ones), and the dimensions are much shorter then I expected. He swears by the fit, but he's only a recreational rider that ride to Starbucks and hang out and talk bike BS and matching socks with the local guys. he does like my slammed stem and long seat post. I do notices many pros bike are still set up that way, for racing. If anyone riding a slow century fun ride with it set up that way, it will kill them.

eschlwc

concerning sport touring (not racing), what is the consensus method for determining the top length of bike fit from saddle nose to the bar's center? this would help determine stem length. is there a rule of thumb one may apply to this measurement regarding his arm/torso length, and, if so, how?

Bandera

Nice pic!

Most beautiful "Huffy" ever made.

-Bandera

Bandera

I don't understand what the difference in fit would be for "sport touring" and racing unless you are carrying a load of some sort on the machine. Racers and fit club riders spend lots of time accumulating base miles where the wisdom is "if you can't talk w/ your training partner you are going too hard". It's certainly not all on the rivet time trials or desperate sprints, although fortunately that's what it gets to be.

The Guimard/LeMond fitting system is holistic, no single factor can be taken into account w/o starting from "Step One: The Right Frame Size" and carrying right on through the "Fifth Step: Upper Body Extension". No single element is considered in isolation.

It's a well proven system, and copyrighted: ISBN 0-399-13229-5 get a copy and go through the system, it can't hurt.

Keep in mind that technology has changed, this is C&V fit from a classic period. Sloping top tubes, hydraulic shifters or electronic brakes are not considered. That said fundamentals are fundamentals.

-Bandera

Bandera

My thought as well.

BTW
Nice Alan, never saw a carbon version in the wild.

-Bandera

ftwelder

I scored a Calfee fitting bike from the local LBS and have been using it quite a bit. You get an amazing result when you can make any adjustment you like in a couple of seconds. It's fun to put a cyclist on it after "scrambling" the geometry and having them direct the changes to make it comfortable. I got the CONI manual recently so I should read the Greg's book also.

I was told Greg used master Jacques geometry anyway,, LOL.

Bandera

I also use Jacques Pepin's methods, it produces the most sublime omelet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57afEWn-QDg

-Bandera

ftwelder

That is hysterical for some reason.. I love a good omelet though