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Roval straight-pull spoke options

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Roval straight-pull spoke options

Old 04-15-22, 09:35 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
The hub I referenced above would not accept a 2mm spoke in the slot. I was unable to source 1.8mm straight pull spokes, and because it was a front wheel, did not wish to accept the liability of altering the slots by filing, or the excessive cold working required to straighten J bend spokes to fit, so in the end, I sent it back without building it.
I have hammered T heads out of standard spoke heads numerous times with no issues though.
Dang! It certainly feels as if there is one obstacle after another to surmount with vintage Roval wheels.
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Old 04-15-22, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Dang! It certainly feels as if there is one obstacle after another to surmount with vintage Roval wheels.
I should point out that if the wheel was for myself, I might have been willing to risk filing out the slots to accommodate a 2mm spoke.
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Old 04-15-22, 02:39 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
I should point out that if the wheel was for myself, I might have been willing to risk filing out the slots to accommodate a 2mm spoke.
I might well do so. In your opinion, would filing the slot on the hub be a safer work-around than trying to reduce the diameter of the spoke from 2mm to 1.8mm?
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Old 04-15-22, 05:48 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
I might well do so. In your opinion, would filing the slot on the hub be a safer work-around than trying to reduce the diameter of the spoke from 2mm to 1.8mm?
Based on my machinist experience, it would be less risk of overall failure to file the slot in the hub rather than removing metal from the spoke.

BUT, the hub is one-of-a-kind. The spokes, you can buy more of. If it were my wheel, I might even try taking some original spokes from the left side (if they are not a different length) and putting them on the right, then remove some material from the new spokes and fit them on the left where they will experience less strain.

Just an idea, not sure if it would work or not. Often as not, rear wheels are built with the same length spokes on each side, just screwed in different amounts into the nipples.
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Old 04-15-22, 06:21 PM
  #30  
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scarlson thanks for those tips, especially about filing the hub slot verses removing material from the spoke.

These wheels are filled with multiple challenges:

First, the front wheel is a low-low flange hub for a 18 spoke radial laced rim. I have a spare front wheel, but those spokes are about 12mm too long for the rear wheel, drive side (the side I need two spokes for). Since the spokes are bladed, they can't be shortened to my needed 278mm length.

Second, the rear is a low-high flange hub. The non-drive side is low flange and laced radially with 8 spokes. The drive side is high flange, laced one-cross, with 16 spokes.

Third, the spoke diameter at the round ends is 1.8mm. All modern bladed straight-pull spokes appear to be 2mm at the round ends. I've only been able to find J-bend spokes in the 1.8mm size.

Fourth, as noted before, the hub end has the flattened dome-top end, instead of the more traditional shapped end of most spokes.

Finally (and this is mentioned early on in this thread), the Roval spokes use a unique brass nipple with a nylon spacer between it and the inside of the rim (see picture in post #18 above).

I now realize that the Roval nipples will not work on the 2mm threaded ends of the DT spokes I ordered.

I'm coming to the conclusion that I'll either:

---Give up on the Roval wheels until original replacement spokes or a reasonably priced rear wheel show up on ebay.
------Or bite the bullet and spend $250 to buy the pair currently on ebay.
---------Or just give up!
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Old 04-15-22, 08:36 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by scarlson View Post
Based on my machinist experience, it would be less risk of overall failure to file the slot in the hub rather than removing metal from the spoke.
BUT, the hub is one-of-a-kind.
.
Yeah, kinda what I was thinking.
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Old 04-16-22, 05:49 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
scarlson thanks for those tips, especially about filing the hub slot verses removing material from the spoke.

These wheels are filled with multiple challenges:

First, the front wheel is a low-low flange hub for a 18 spoke radial laced rim. I have a spare front wheel, but those spokes are about 12mm too long for the rear wheel, drive side (the side I need two spokes for). Since the spokes are bladed, they can't be shortened to my needed 278mm length.

Second, the rear is a low-high flange hub. The non-drive side is low flange and laced radially with 8 spokes. The drive side is high flange, laced one-cross, with 16 spokes.

Third, the spoke diameter at the round ends is 1.8mm. All modern bladed straight-pull spokes appear to be 2mm at the round ends. I've only been able to find J-bend spokes in the 1.8mm size.

Fourth, as noted before, the hub end has the flattened dome-top end, instead of the more traditional shapped end of most spokes.

Finally (and this is mentioned early on in this thread), the Roval spokes use a unique brass nipple with a nylon spacer between it and the inside of the rim (see picture in post #18 above).

I now realize that the Roval nipples will not work on the 2mm threaded ends of the DT spokes I ordered.

I'm coming to the conclusion that I'll either:

---Give up on the Roval wheels until original replacement spokes or a reasonably priced rear wheel show up on ebay.
------Or bite the bullet and spend $250 to buy the pair currently on ebay.
---------Or just give up!
Darn. That is stinky poopoo. I assume it is the second of these guys...it has tires too...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27516403810...IAAOSwjGViBu5N
https://www.ebay.com/itm/25547142026...UAAOSwr11iSycy
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Old 04-16-22, 06:00 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc View Post
Darn. That is stinky poopoo. I assume it is the second of these guys...it has tires too...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27516403810...IAAOSwjGViBu5N
https://www.ebay.com/itm/25547142026...UAAOSwr11iSycy
Yes, that's the pair. The rear rim looks overly braked while the front rim looks barely touched. The wheels are in Sun Valley, Idaho. I guess the previous rider didn't know the front brake can help slow on steep descents!

I'm about to place an offer and see where it takes me.
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Old 04-16-22, 06:37 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Yes, that's the pair. The rear rim looks overly braked while the front rim looks barely touched. The wheels are in Sun Valley, Idaho. I guess the previous rider didn't know the front brake can help slow on steep descents!

I'm about to place an offer and see where it takes me.
Good luck. I am hoping to see those wheels rolling again. Never knew how rare they were. One of these days I will get to mounting one of my 2 or 3 dormant tubular pairs and see what the excitement is about!
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Old 04-16-22, 02:48 PM
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The black finish on the Roval wheel rims back then seemed to easily wear off the braking surfaces like they were just painted, instead of anodized. Best to find the silver version if you can, as they won't look so beat up too soon.
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Old 04-17-22, 05:52 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Chombi1 View Post
The black finish on the Roval wheel rims back then seemed to easily wear off the braking surfaces like they were just painted, instead of anodized. Best to find the silver version if you can, as they won't look so beat up too soon.
Maybe, I can repaint my rear rim prior to remounting the tubular tires IF I can ever find replacement spokes!
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Old 04-17-22, 06:09 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Maybe, I can repaint my rear rim prior to remounting the tubular tires IF I can ever find replacement spokes!
Are those the Rovals? I never noticed the difference in colors...?
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Old 04-17-22, 03:20 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc View Post
Are those the Rovals? I never noticed the difference in colors...?
Both are Rovals. The rear is the one I bought from you. The front is the replacement I got from eBay for the front you sold me which was missing a spoke. Oh what a saga this has become! Especially if I purchase another set to source rear spokes. But so far, I'm happy because they are great riding wheels.

BTW, my offer for the $250 set was not accepted.
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Old 04-17-22, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Both are Rovals. The rear is the one I bought from you. The front is the replacement I got from eBay for the front you sold me which was missing a spoke. Oh what a saga this has become! Especially if I purchase another set to source rear spokes. But so far, I'm happy because they are great riding wheels.

BTW, my offer for the $250 set was not accepted.
Sorry for my part in the saga.... 😬

There really Has to be someone somewhere in France, Taiwan, Japan, China, US wherever sitting on a poop load of spokes. No way they made just enough.

If the spoke manufacturer was a known quantity it might be in a warehouse somewhere.

Best bet is someone at some point sells a broken rear wheel. That’s a lot of google searches to do.
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Old 04-18-22, 06:28 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Both are Rovals. The rear is the one I bought from you. The front is the replacement I got from eBay for the front you sold me which was missing a spoke. Oh what a saga this has become! Especially if I purchase another set to source rear spokes. But so far, I'm happy because they are great riding wheels.

BTW, my offer for the $250 set was not accepted.
I haven't had a chance to nag the local Specialized shops. A bit difficult since the chain's larger store was recently closed. But will do.

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Old 04-18-22, 10:18 AM
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My Rovals on my Vitus Plus Carbone 7.......
They really look at home on the French bike.....

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Old 04-19-22, 06:36 AM
  #42  
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Chombi1 your Roval rims appear to be pristine! And the bike, well,
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Old 04-19-22, 11:04 AM
  #43  
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I have got two pairs - on set of clincher and one set for tubes. Both pairs are of the silver anodized version - rims and hubs.

30 spoke radial front, clincher rim




30 spoke radial left and two cross right, clincher rim



18 spoke front tubular rim (the rear with tubular rim is a 24 spoke - and I do not have a picture of it...this showing the clincher rear)

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Old 04-20-22, 07:27 AM
  #44  
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styggno1 beautiful! Thanks for posting your pictures and showing the variation with the hole number on the clincher rims and the silver versions.

By any chance do you have any source for vintage Roval spokes in Sweden or Europe?
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Old 04-20-22, 10:16 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by styggno1 View Post
I have got two pairs - on set of clincher and one set for tubes. Both pairs are of the silver anodized version - rims and hubs.

30 spoke radial front, clincher rim




30 spoke radial left and two cross right, clincher rim



18 spoke front tubular rim (the rear with tubular rim is a 24 spoke - and I do not have a picture of it...this showing the clincher rear)

Wow. Never seen 30 spoke wheels before. I guess the only way that works is radial on the front and 2/1 (20/10) lacing on the rear.
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Old 04-20-22, 11:48 AM
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If stuff is already being mashed with hammers, what about starting with a 1.8mm straight-gauge spoke, cutting off the J-bend, putting it in a vise and hitting it straight on to form a head, then hammering it from the side to flatten that?

I spent about as much time thinking about that as it did to type out, so I'm sure it's not that simple.
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Old 04-20-22, 03:26 PM
  #47  
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Scott, your suggestion might be worth trying.

My DT Swiss straight pull 2mm spokes arrived yesterday. I've been holding them in place on the hub while pondering how I will approach the modification. It would not take much to either widen the hub channels enough for the 2mm or to take just a little off the spoke to make them fit. I'm also pondering if the Roval nipples can be drilled out and threaded for 2mm spokes?
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Old 04-21-22, 04:28 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
styggno1 beautiful! Thanks for posting your pictures and showing the variation with the hole number on the clincher rims and the silver versions.

By any chance do you have any source for vintage Roval spokes in Sweden or Europe?
Thanks!
I investigated sources in Sweden already in the late 1990: s... with no luck. There were only a few shops in Sweden that sold Rovals back then (mostly in the 80ies) so when I tried to get spares in the late 90ies I checked all of them - no luck. No luck at all. I still regularly put in ads on local bike sites to buy Rovals but as of yet no luck. The ones I have I have had since they were hot modern stuff... ;-)

Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
Wow. Never seen 30 spoke wheels before. I guess the only way that works is radial on the front and 2/1 (20/10) lacing on the rear.
Yes - 10 radial on non drive side and 20 one cross on drive side. The 24 spoke has 8/16.
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Old 04-22-22, 07:25 AM
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...the Spoke Saga Continues...

The DT Swiss straight pull, bladed spokes I ordered arrived and yesterday, I had a chance to modify spokes for the first time.

First, I tried ThermionicScott 's suggestion and took a used J-hook spoke and cut off the end and hammered it on the anvil. I don't believe this will work because the end tapered to a thin edge and was not thick like the original Roval spokes.

Here's a close up of the Roval and DT Swiss spoke ends:

L-R: Roval, DT Swiss flattened and DT Swiss original

As can be seen, I decided to grind the DT head with my belt sander and Dremel. I went slowly, comparing it to the Roval head while checking the fit in the slot on the hub.



I had to reduce the 2mm thickness on the DT spoke enough to fit in the 1.8mm slot on the Roval hub. Eventually I was able to slip it into place. However, I needed to continue shaping the head in order to better seat it in the slot.

This is where I stopped yesterday. I still need to remove more from the head for a better fit. Also, I'll be careful on the two final spokes to remove less on the shaft and try to keep that area confined to the slot on the hub.

The next challenge will be to convert the Roval nipple hole and threads from 1.8mm Roval standard to the 2.0 DT standard. All my taps and dyes are in NH. I'll visit my local ACE here in GA to see if they have what is needed.

...more to come....
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Old 04-22-22, 07:36 AM
  #50  
jdawginsc 
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
...the Spoke Saga Continues...

The DT Swiss straight pull, bladed spokes I ordered arrived and yesterday, I had a chance to modify spokes for the first time.

First, I tried ThermionicScott 's suggestion and took a used J-hook spoke and cut off the end and hammered it on the anvil. I don't believe this will work because the end tapered to a thin edge and was not thick like the original Roval spokes.

Here's a close up of the Roval and DT Swiss spoke ends:

L-R: Roval, DT Swiss flattened and DT Swiss original

As can be seen, I decided to grind the DT head with my belt sander and Dremel. I went slowly, comparing it to the Roval head while checking the fit in the slot on the hub.



I had to reduce the 2mm thickness on the DT spoke enough to fit in the 1.8mm slot on the Roval hub. Eventually I was able to slip it into place. However, I needed to continue shaping the head in order to better seat it in the slot.

This is where I stopped yesterday. I still need to remove more from the head for a better fit. Also, I'll be careful on the two final spokes to remove less on the shaft and try to keep that area confined to the slot on the hub.

The next challenge will be to convert the Roval nipple hole and threads from 1.8mm Roval standard to the 2.0 DT standard. All my taps and dyes are in NH. I'll visit my local ACE here in GA to see if they have what is needed.

...more to come....
Impressive jury-rigging (jerry-rigging?)!
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