Why does it seem that classic boom bikes all seemed to have very narrow drop bars?
09-17-13, 07:44 PM
#76
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I've tried to word this so the next post won't be " when it's wide" so here goes....when does a bar become "narrow" ?
09-17-13, 08:05 PM
#77
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09-18-13, 01:21 PM
#78
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Wider handlebars have slower steering than narrower bars. In other words, to turn the front wheel a given number of degrees, a rider's hands have to move further forward or backward on wider bars than on narrower bars. That is because the lever arm is longer on wider bars.
Wider bars give more leverage to turn the front wheel than narrower bars. That is also because the lever arm is longer on wider bars. This may be much more important in off road riding than in on road riding.
Narrower bars are more aerodynamic than wider bars, but in the real world, this may or may not make any appreciable difference. It depends on the rider and the circumstances.
Narrower bars can navigate through smaller openings than wider bars, however the difference is only a few centimeters. For a bike messenger in New York City that might make all the difference. For most everyone else, that might not matter at all.
Being able to breathe better with wider bars than with narrower bars is open to debate. Time trial riders use a tremendous amount of oxygen during their competitions, yet they have no problem breathing with their arms close together and their hands right next to each other.
Some people like wider bars, and other people like narrower bars. This may be due to the rider liking quicker or slower steering, because the rider grew up with with a particular type of bar, because of the popularity of one type of bar over the other, because one type of bar "feels better" to the rider, because the rider has heard that one type of bar is better than the other, or because of any number of other valid and invalid reasons.
In a world of hyperbole, it is important to keep one's head and realize that one size does not, in fact, fit all. And, the worth of wider or narrower handlebars needs to be determined on an individual basis.
Wider bars give more leverage to turn the front wheel than narrower bars. That is also because the lever arm is longer on wider bars. This may be much more important in off road riding than in on road riding.
Narrower bars are more aerodynamic than wider bars, but in the real world, this may or may not make any appreciable difference. It depends on the rider and the circumstances.
Narrower bars can navigate through smaller openings than wider bars, however the difference is only a few centimeters. For a bike messenger in New York City that might make all the difference. For most everyone else, that might not matter at all.
Being able to breathe better with wider bars than with narrower bars is open to debate. Time trial riders use a tremendous amount of oxygen during their competitions, yet they have no problem breathing with their arms close together and their hands right next to each other.
Some people like wider bars, and other people like narrower bars. This may be due to the rider liking quicker or slower steering, because the rider grew up with with a particular type of bar, because of the popularity of one type of bar over the other, because one type of bar "feels better" to the rider, because the rider has heard that one type of bar is better than the other, or because of any number of other valid and invalid reasons.
In a world of hyperbole, it is important to keep one's head and realize that one size does not, in fact, fit all. And, the worth of wider or narrower handlebars needs to be determined on an individual basis.
09-18-13, 01:45 PM
#80
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\reopenthread
How are bars measured?
How are bars measured?
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09-18-13, 02:19 PM
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Typically center to center.
...and to add my 2 cents.I have experimented with a wide range of bars and in my experience bars that are wider or narrower than my shoulders tend to feel less stable. Wider bars tend to be especially sensitive to shifts in weight. However, in a flat out sprint the wider bars seemed to give more leverage and I felt as though I was able to mash a bigger gear and get a lot more power out of it while maintaining roughly the same cadence. I prefer bars a little more narrow than my shoulders because I feel they keep me in a tighter position making me more aero. Now that I am used to them I don't really have the control issues that I initially. In a big group there is also the ability to press through smaller openings.
In my opinion depth is just as important as width and I find that I also prefer shallow drops. In my experimentation I have found that balance of weight and body position have dramatic effects on steering. I put less weight on the handlebars, steering really seems like it should be mostly done in the hips rather than with the hands.
...and to add my 2 cents.I have experimented with a wide range of bars and in my experience bars that are wider or narrower than my shoulders tend to feel less stable. Wider bars tend to be especially sensitive to shifts in weight. However, in a flat out sprint the wider bars seemed to give more leverage and I felt as though I was able to mash a bigger gear and get a lot more power out of it while maintaining roughly the same cadence. I prefer bars a little more narrow than my shoulders because I feel they keep me in a tighter position making me more aero. Now that I am used to them I don't really have the control issues that I initially. In a big group there is also the ability to press through smaller openings.
In my opinion depth is just as important as width and I find that I also prefer shallow drops. In my experimentation I have found that balance of weight and body position have dramatic effects on steering. I put less weight on the handlebars, steering really seems like it should be mostly done in the hips rather than with the hands.
09-18-13, 02:40 PM
#82
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I have weak deltoid muscles. I think that's why I prefer narrow handlebars: when they're wide, my shoulder muscles get tired.
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09-18-13, 02:52 PM
#83
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Bar width does make a difference to me. I have narrow shoulders in relation to my height and like the Sakae Royal 39s. I always have. That's just what is perfect for me in drop and width.
09-18-13, 05:00 PM
#85
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Wider handlebars have slower steering than narrower bars. In other words, to turn the front wheel a given number of degrees, a rider's hands have to move further forward or backward on wider bars than on narrower bars. That is because the lever arm is longer on wider bars.
Wider bars give more leverage to turn the front wheel than narrower bars. That is also because the lever arm is longer on wider bars. This may be much more important in off road riding than in on road riding.
Narrower bars are more aerodynamic than wider bars, but in the real world, this may or may not make any appreciable difference. It depends on the rider and the circumstances.
Narrower bars can navigate through smaller openings than wider bars, however the difference is only a few centimeters. For a bike messenger in New York City that might make all the difference. For most everyone else, that might not matter at all.
Being able to breathe better with wider bars than with narrower bars is open to debate. Time trial riders use a tremendous amount of oxygen during their competitions, yet they have no problem breathing with their arms close together and their hands right next to each other.
Some people like wider bars, and other people like narrower bars. This may be due to the rider liking quicker or slower steering, because the rider grew up with with a particular type of bar, because of the popularity of one type of bar over the other, because one type of bar "feels better" to the rider, because the rider has heard that one type of bar is better than the other, or because of any number of other valid and invalid reasons.
In a world of hyperbole, it is important to keep one's head and realize that one size does not, in fact, fit all. And, the worth of wider or narrower handlebars needs to be determined on an individual basis.
Wider bars give more leverage to turn the front wheel than narrower bars. That is also because the lever arm is longer on wider bars. This may be much more important in off road riding than in on road riding.
Narrower bars are more aerodynamic than wider bars, but in the real world, this may or may not make any appreciable difference. It depends on the rider and the circumstances.
Narrower bars can navigate through smaller openings than wider bars, however the difference is only a few centimeters. For a bike messenger in New York City that might make all the difference. For most everyone else, that might not matter at all.
Being able to breathe better with wider bars than with narrower bars is open to debate. Time trial riders use a tremendous amount of oxygen during their competitions, yet they have no problem breathing with their arms close together and their hands right next to each other.
Some people like wider bars, and other people like narrower bars. This may be due to the rider liking quicker or slower steering, because the rider grew up with with a particular type of bar, because of the popularity of one type of bar over the other, because one type of bar "feels better" to the rider, because the rider has heard that one type of bar is better than the other, or because of any number of other valid and invalid reasons.
In a world of hyperbole, it is important to keep one's head and realize that one size does not, in fact, fit all. And, the worth of wider or narrower handlebars needs to be determined on an individual basis.
09-19-13, 08:20 PM
#88
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It's not because of the "fatty American diet" that some in this thread seem to be implying, but folks are growing in size compared to previous generations.
I'm first generation American. My cousins and I tower over the rest of our family who were born at home in little villages over in eastern Europe. Blame better nutrition during childhood and better prenatal care. The way I see it we aren't "morphing" into bigger people, rather we are reaching the potential of our genes. Who knows, my grandpa probably would have been a couple inches taller had he been born in a more prosperous time & place.
I'm not a huge guy at 6'1 170lb but those little narrow 38cm bars make it feel like I'm riding a kids bike.
I'm first generation American. My cousins and I tower over the rest of our family who were born at home in little villages over in eastern Europe. Blame better nutrition during childhood and better prenatal care. The way I see it we aren't "morphing" into bigger people, rather we are reaching the potential of our genes. Who knows, my grandpa probably would have been a couple inches taller had he been born in a more prosperous time & place.
I'm not a huge guy at 6'1 170lb but those little narrow 38cm bars make it feel like I'm riding a kids bike.
While some humans are "growing" this does not relate to our shoulder width, the bones - at least in the short term (a thousand years or so). Agree though, 38s on my 5'8" frame - still like a kids bike.
09-19-13, 08:25 PM
#89
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Wider handlebars have slower steering than narrower bars. In other words, to turn the front wheel a given number of degrees, a rider's hands have to move further forward or backward on wider bars than on narrower bars. That is because the lever arm is longer on wider bars.
Wider bars give more leverage to turn the front wheel than narrower bars. That is also because the lever arm is longer on wider bars. This may be much more important in off road riding than in on road riding.
Narrower bars are more aerodynamic than wider bars, but in the real world, this may or may not make any appreciable difference. It depends on the rider and the circumstances.
Narrower bars can navigate through smaller openings than wider bars, however the difference is only a few centimeters. For a bike messenger in New York City that might make all the difference. For most everyone else, that might not matter at all.
Being able to breathe better with wider bars than with narrower bars is open to debate. Time trial riders use a tremendous amount of oxygen during their competitions, yet they have no problem breathing with their arms close together and their hands right next to each other.
Some people like wider bars, and other people like narrower bars. This may be due to the rider liking quicker or slower steering, because the rider grew up with with a particular type of bar, because of the popularity of one type of bar over the other, because one type of bar "feels better" to the rider, because the rider has heard that one type of bar is better than the other, or because of any number of other valid and invalid reasons.
In a world of hyperbole, it is important to keep one's head and realize that one size does not, in fact, fit all. And, the worth of wider or narrower handlebars needs to be determined on an individual basis.
Wider bars give more leverage to turn the front wheel than narrower bars. That is also because the lever arm is longer on wider bars. This may be much more important in off road riding than in on road riding.
Narrower bars are more aerodynamic than wider bars, but in the real world, this may or may not make any appreciable difference. It depends on the rider and the circumstances.
Narrower bars can navigate through smaller openings than wider bars, however the difference is only a few centimeters. For a bike messenger in New York City that might make all the difference. For most everyone else, that might not matter at all.
Being able to breathe better with wider bars than with narrower bars is open to debate. Time trial riders use a tremendous amount of oxygen during their competitions, yet they have no problem breathing with their arms close together and their hands right next to each other.
Some people like wider bars, and other people like narrower bars. This may be due to the rider liking quicker or slower steering, because the rider grew up with with a particular type of bar, because of the popularity of one type of bar over the other, because one type of bar "feels better" to the rider, because the rider has heard that one type of bar is better than the other, or because of any number of other valid and invalid reasons.
In a world of hyperbole, it is important to keep one's head and realize that one size does not, in fact, fit all. And, the worth of wider or narrower handlebars needs to be determined on an individual basis.
Um, so you're saying narrow bars suck, right?
Great commentary nontheless.
09-20-13, 04:51 AM
#90
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In regard to how I personally feel about handlebar width, I am 6 ft. 1 in. tall and weigh 215 lbs., and I like 38 cm. handlebars. I also like steel bicycles ( see my bikes at https://www.flickr.com/photos/76452700@N05/ )
I do not buy into the better breathing/wider bar argument because I have never seen any credible scientific evidence to support that theory and for the reason that I mentioned in my commentary about the lack of negative effects seen in time trial riders. On the other hand, my narrower bars allow for quicker steering to help me avoid potholes, traffic, and when riding in a group, other riders. Most importantly, they just feel right to me.
It's like comparing the small steering wheel on a Ferrari which has quick steering to the large steering wheel on a city bus which has slow steering. I like the quick steering. However, somebody else may like the feel of slower steering.
Relatively slow steering may feel stable and secure for one person, yet the very same steering may feel numb and dead to another person. The same goes for relatively fast steering which may feel fun and sporty to one person, yet may feel twitchy and scary to another person.
The material that the fork is made of along with the geometry of the fork and frame also have a great influence on the perceived properties of the steering. Fast steering on a fork that jars, bounces, and jerks over every little imperfection in the road can feel intimidating and, for some, unsafe. By the same token, fast steering on a fork that absorbs shocks and smoothly glides over road imperfections can be a joy. These perceptions are subjective and unique to each rider.
As Humphrey Bogart said in "The African Queen", "You pays your money, and you takes your choice."
Last edited by Fred B; 09-20-13 at 03:06 PM.
09-20-13, 06:24 PM
#91
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Thank you for the compliment on my commentary.
In regard to how I personally feel about handlebar width, I am 6 ft. 1 in. tall and weigh 215 lbs., and I like 38 cm. handlebars. I also like steel bicycles ( see my bikes at https://www.flickr.com/photos/76452700@N05/ )
I do not buy into the better breathing/wider bar argument because I have never seen any credible scientific evidence to support that theory and for the reason that I mentioned in my commentary about the lack of negative effects seen in time trial riders. On the other hand, my narrower bars allow for quicker steering to help me avoid potholes, traffic, and when riding in a group, other riders. Most importantly, they just feel right to me.
It's like comparing the small steering wheel on a Ferrari which has quick steering to the large steering wheel on a city bus which has slow steering. I like the quick steering. However, somebody else may like the feel of slower steering.
Relatively slow steering may feel stable and secure for one person, yet the very same steering may feel numb and dead to another person. The same goes for relatively fast steering which may feel fun and sporty to one person, yet may feel twitchy and scary to another person.
The material that the fork is made of along with the geometry of the fork and frame also have a great influence on the perceived properties of the steering. Fast steering on a fork that jars, bounces, and jerks over every little imperfection in the road can feel intimidating and, for some, unsafe. By the same token, fast steering on a fork that absorbs shocks and smoothly glides over road imperfections can be a joy. These perceptions are subjective and unique to each rider.
As Humphrey Bogart said in "The African Queen", "You pays your money, and you takes your choice."
In regard to how I personally feel about handlebar width, I am 6 ft. 1 in. tall and weigh 215 lbs., and I like 38 cm. handlebars. I also like steel bicycles ( see my bikes at https://www.flickr.com/photos/76452700@N05/ )
I do not buy into the better breathing/wider bar argument because I have never seen any credible scientific evidence to support that theory and for the reason that I mentioned in my commentary about the lack of negative effects seen in time trial riders. On the other hand, my narrower bars allow for quicker steering to help me avoid potholes, traffic, and when riding in a group, other riders. Most importantly, they just feel right to me.
It's like comparing the small steering wheel on a Ferrari which has quick steering to the large steering wheel on a city bus which has slow steering. I like the quick steering. However, somebody else may like the feel of slower steering.
Relatively slow steering may feel stable and secure for one person, yet the very same steering may feel numb and dead to another person. The same goes for relatively fast steering which may feel fun and sporty to one person, yet may feel twitchy and scary to another person.
The material that the fork is made of along with the geometry of the fork and frame also have a great influence on the perceived properties of the steering. Fast steering on a fork that jars, bounces, and jerks over every little imperfection in the road can feel intimidating and, for some, unsafe. By the same token, fast steering on a fork that absorbs shocks and smoothly glides over road imperfections can be a joy. These perceptions are subjective and unique to each rider.
As Humphrey Bogart said in "The African Queen", "You pays your money, and you takes your choice."
Beautiful bikes. I'll take the DeRosa - come in a 53?
"Leeches!" --Humphrey Bogart, African Queen
09-21-13, 06:23 AM
#92
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As for the De Rosa, it does indeed come in size 53 cm. In fact, it comes in every size from 48 cm through 61 cm.
The De Rosa Nuovo Classico frame is made from high strength Dedacciai SAT 14.5 steel (see the following for a comparison of modern steel alloys - https://www.strongframes.com/more_stu...ls_tech/specs/ ), and my frameset also came with a Deda seat post.
I bought my frameset from Bellatisport.com (https://www.bellatisport.com/shop/cat..._Classico.html ) and had absolutely no problems with the order. As you can see, the current price from that dealer is $2010.10 plus shipping. (If you indicate that you are buying in U.S. dollars and shipping to the U.S., you do not have to pay the Eurozone Value Added Tax - VAT - and will get the price I quoted.) Bellatisport also has a Campagnolo Athena 11-speed polished alloy groupset, which would look great on this bike, for $891.92. (https://www.bellatisport.com/shop/cat...eed_group.html )
Another good source is Wiggle.com (https://www.wiggle.com/de-rosa-nuevo-classico-2013/ ) where the frameset price is $2007.45.
The colors available change each year, and for 2013, the Nuovo Classico colors were green (like mine) and black. The 2014 colors, which are available now, are what appears to be a bluish silver and red. (see https://www.derosanews.com/english/DE...er_Iridio.html ). However, I have heard that when you order a frameset, De Rosa is willing to paint the frame and fork with another of their paint colors if you ask.
Lastly, the De Rosa frameset is a great choice if you decide to get one. It has a wonderful feel, and draws compliments all of the time.
Last edited by Fred B; 09-21-13 at 07:45 AM.
09-21-13, 06:44 AM
#93
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When your in your early 20's, 5'8" - 5"10", 125# soaking wet, and 4% body fat, how wide a bar do you really need?
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