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A 120mm rear wheel build - hub option opinions?

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A 120mm rear wheel build - hub option opinions?

Old 09-28-13, 02:34 PM
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LeicaLad 
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A 120mm rear wheel build - hub option opinions?

Dear friends,

A question regarding hub choice & hub quality.

I broke the rim on my rear wheel on my 71 Gitane TdF, so need to build a new wheel. This is a 120mm spaced rear, so I will be building a 5-6 speed.

My hub options come down to two primary choices: 1) a lo-flange Campy Record hub with excellent bearing surfaces; or 2) a NOS Shimano 600EX 5-speed cassette hub (and I have the matching cassette for it). Id probably spring for a new IRD freewheel for the Record build.

Im still deciding between a Sun rim, a Velo-Orange PBP, or something similar but vintage-esque in character.

My question regards the hub quality of the choices. I have this 5-speed cassette hub but have ZERO experience with 600EX hub quality vis--vis a standard Campy Record hub. Anybody know this series of hubs and how they stack up?

Comments, opinions &/or suggestions accepted.

Thanks.
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1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King
1971 Gitane Tour de France (original owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (crashed)
* rebuilt as upright cruiser
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement)
1980 Ritchey Road Touring (The Grail Bike)
1982 Tom Ritchey Everest
(replacing stolen 1981 TR Everest custom)
1982 Tom Ritchey McKinley (touring pickup truck)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)
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Old 09-28-13, 03:47 PM
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Not sure if you saw this in the "Interbike?" thread, but Compass Cycles has started importing Grand Bois' 120mm 5-speed cassette hubs: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/0...cassette-hubs/

They use a mix of 8-speed Shimano cogs and spacers to make everything work. Might be worth considering, as 8-speed cogs are a lot easier to find than UG 1st-position cogs.
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Old 09-28-13, 04:23 PM
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I just had my 120mm reset to approx 126 so it could take some super smooth Suntour Superbe Pro hubs. They are awesome and at approx $100 on ebay for a pair in great condition after myuch research I felt this was the way to go.

Arb
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Old 09-28-13, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
Dear friends,

A question regarding hub choice & hub quality.

I broke the rim on my rear wheel on my ’71 Gitane TdF, so need to build a new wheel. This is a 120mm spaced rear, so I will be building a 5-6 speed.

My hub options come down to two primary choices: 1) a lo-flange Campy Record hub with excellent bearing surfaces; or 2) a NOS Shimano 600EX 5-speed cassette hub (and I have the matching cassette for it). I’d probably spring for a new IRD freewheel for the Record build.

I’m still deciding between a Sun rim, a Velo-Orange PBP, or something similar but vintage-esque in character.

My question regards the hub quality of the choices. I have this 5-speed cassette hub but have ZERO experience with 600EX hub quality vis--vis a standard Campy Record hub. Anybody know this series of hubs and how they stack up?

Comments, opinions &/or suggestions accepted.

Thanks.
Whoa... a NOS 600EX 5-speed cassette hub is very rare. I bet it would be as smooth as the Record if you overhaul it- the grease is really, really old.

It depends on your intentions. If you want to impress the Great Unwashed, build your wheel on the Campy hub (Whoa! Vintage Campy!). If you want to impress C&V, use the Shimano (Whoa! Shimano 5-speed cassette hub!)

And, yes... I used 3 Whoa's in one post.
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Old 09-28-13, 04:36 PM
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Thanks for these thoughts. I've kept an eye on Jan's 5 speed hub, but I have these two already in hand, and a nice NOS cassette, plus several backup cogs. And it is hard to discount a nice Campy Record hub.

I have several older bikes (a '59 & '63) that have both been reset to 126mm. I have two '71 Gitane bikes, the TdF and an SC. Both of these are still 120, although the TdF is an easy 123mm. I rather like keeping them as they are. I have some drive train matters to sort out, too, but I'm really hoping for opinions on the 600EX hub and its running bits.

The front will be an orphan-but-NOS Phil. This is not a show bike, but a war horse.
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1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King
1971 Gitane Tour de France (original owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (crashed)
* rebuilt as upright cruiser
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement)
1980 Ritchey Road Touring (The Grail Bike)
1982 Tom Ritchey Everest
(replacing stolen 1981 TR Everest custom)
1982 Tom Ritchey McKinley (touring pickup truck)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)
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Old 09-28-13, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
Whoa... a NOS 600EX 5-speed cassette hub is very rare. I bet it would be as smooth as the Record if you overhaul it- the grease is really, really old.

It depends on your intentions. If you want to impress the Great Unwashed, build your wheel on the Campy hub (Whoa! Vintage Campy!). If you want to impress C&V, use the Shimano (Whoa! Shimano 5-speed cassette hub!)

And, yes... I used 3 Whoa's in one post.

It's maybe once a year in one of those "tweed rides" or such events that anyone notices me or my bikes. Old guy on old bikes.

I'll probably have to go to the Mechanics forum to get advice on tearing down a cassette hub. In fact, I've repacked many a hub, bb & headset, but, all my bikes being old, I've actually never done a cassette hub. SO, this will be fun.

Jeff, what I think I hear you saying is that the Shimano, if cleaned and repacked (correctly), should be every bit as fine in spinning. Yes? The proof of the pudding, of course, is in the long downhill coast. Will it be up to the Phil in front?

I ride with obscure and fine old bits and pieces only for my own pleasure. This is good, 'cause, as noted, no one else ever notices. ;-)

The only Whoa! that I can remember was a "Whoa! You only have 5 cogs back there??!!??"

Rip Van Winkle, he presumed. . .
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1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King
1971 Gitane Tour de France (original owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (crashed)
* rebuilt as upright cruiser
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement)
1980 Ritchey Road Touring (The Grail Bike)
1982 Tom Ritchey Everest
(replacing stolen 1981 TR Everest custom)
1982 Tom Ritchey McKinley (touring pickup truck)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)
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Old 09-28-13, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post

I'll probably have to go to the Mechanics forum to get advice on tearing down a cassette hub.
In fact, I've repacked many a hub, bb & headset, but, all my bikes being old, I've actually never done a cassette hub. SO, this will be fun.

......no big deal. You have to pull the cogs to get at the cone flats, as you
would have to pull a freewheel in the other case.

Everything else works similarly in terms of cones, locknuts, bearing balls, etc.

The bearing support points are usually farther apart in cassette hubs....part of their attraction.


I'm not certain I've ever actually seen a 5 speed cassette hub,
but I have a 6 on one of the bikes out in the garage.
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Old 09-29-13, 04:16 AM
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campy record hub, sun m13ii rim ($35 shipped from green canyon outfitters), and sapim db spokes, and you have a damn nice wheel on the relatively cheap.

i used to use $50 ird freewheels, but realized they offer nothing that a $16 sunrace 5 or 6-speed can't deliver. i get mine in either gold or silver color from amazon.
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Old 09-29-13, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
Jeff, what I think I hear you saying is that the Shimano, if cleaned and repacked (correctly), should be every bit as fine in spinning. Yes? The proof of the pudding, of course, is in the long downhill coast. Will it be up to the Phil in front?
Yep, Rip van Winkle. I remember when the Shimano cassette hubs started showing up- the vast majority were 6-speed since they were on new bikes, and "12-speeds is better than 10-speeds", y'know.

The bearings, cups, and cones on 600EX were almost as good as Dura-Ace of that era. Not quite the same degree of polish, but possibly the high-water mark for cup & cone bearings.

I disagree with 3alamer. I don't think you can get at the right-side cone flats even with the cogs removed. No matter- disassemble from the left side, clean, grease, and reassemble. It'll go for miles and miles.

Here's the catalog page: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/24.html . What would be cool is the high-flange cassette hubs- but I've only seen one set in the wild.

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Old 09-29-13, 08:58 AM
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Why not use the existing hub from the broken wheel?
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Old 09-29-13, 09:17 AM
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I really like the set of 36h 1978 Sunshine Pro Am hubs I recently built up. They are freewheel of course.
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Old 09-29-13, 10:10 AM
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Why are you not reusing the hub you were using?

If you're going to change hubs, I like the idea of going a bit more modern. If you can swing it, get a cassette hub. If you have reason not to do this, you may want to go up to 126mm as others suggest.
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Old 09-29-13, 10:20 AM
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I have both Nuovo Record and 600 hubs — the latter being the freewheel type. I like them both. Of course, you cannot replace the races in the 600/600 EX. I rebuild my 600 hubs with Dura Ace bearings and have been very pleased with them. I'd stack them up with modern Ultegra — which in my opinion they will be like Dura Ace with a few oz more in the make.

I can fully understand why you might want to keep the original 120 spacing. And the new Grand Bois 5 speed free-hub cited above seems fantastic. They must be a fantastic price too. Another option.

The $50 IRD 5-speed freewheel would be cool for the Campy. They sure look nice, but I've been going with the 'cheap-as -borscht' Shimano 14-28T six speed. The next one I buy may be a Sunrace. Sometimes a bit of a panic breaks out over the availability of freewheels, but three companies are still making them. Both IRD and Sunrace offer a bit of a selection that includes both 5 and 6 speeds. The Sunrace as it comes from the factory may sound awful. But, a buddy and I have found out some Triflow squirted in and worked around makes them behave very nicely. Not bad for $10!

The Campy hubs are tempting; a well-lubricated and adjusted Record hub is just so silky. But the NOS 600 — well I've always had a special affection for the whole 600/Ultegra line. I'd have a glass of good scotch and see what yer tummy tells you.
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Old 09-29-13, 11:20 AM
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There is a set of 120mm "Tandem" wheels f/s in the c&v classifieds. Phil hubs.
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Old 09-29-13, 02:45 PM
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Gentlemen all,

First, the Campagnolo Record hub IS the "original" that came from the broken wheel. It is Option A.

The Shimano is the low-flange version. True, that high-flange looks lovely. The finish work is not impressive on my sample, which is why I asked about the bearing race reputation.




Well, work with what we have.

The cassette hub IS quite dry and a rebuild beckons. I have a learning experience in front of me.

The hub is currently spaced at about 125mm. Removing these two smallest spacers should put be back at the original 120mm.





I think the appeal is the experimentation. The suggestion of the Sun M13ii rims is an excellent idea.

The Campy hub can always be saved for a rebuild as 126, 'cause I have the replacement axle in my parts box.

Freewheels are disposable items of use. The fug-ugly Shimano or Sun options are fine, too. I have one IRD, and it IS very nice...


Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.
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1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King
1971 Gitane Tour de France (original owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (crashed)
* rebuilt as upright cruiser
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement)
1980 Ritchey Road Touring (The Grail Bike)
1982 Tom Ritchey Everest
(replacing stolen 1981 TR Everest custom)
1982 Tom Ritchey McKinley (touring pickup truck)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)
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Old 07-27-20, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
Whoa... a NOS 600EX 5-speed cassette hub is very rare. I bet it would be as smooth as the Record if you overhaul it- the grease is really, really old.

It depends on your intentions. If you want to impress the Great Unwashed, build your wheel on the Campy hub (Whoa! Vintage Campy!). If you want to impress C&V, use the Shimano (Whoa! Shimano 5-speed cassette hub!)

And, yes... I used 3 Whoa's in one post.
you used four, sir
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Old 07-27-20, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Standalone View Post
you used four, sir
You participated in this thread seven years ago when it was first posted. Did it take you seven years to think of that response?

(I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip the servers.)
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