Who can tell me about Le Croco bikes?
 

I've been through some of the threads here and found one for sale in Vancouver, but still a bit of a mystery.

I bought one this evening, in rough shape. It has one of those Cinelli stems where there is no clamp, just a wedge thing inside the stem to hold the bars in place.... pantographed Battaglin. Specialized headset, presumably non original. Non-original Suntour derailleurs but original early 80s Campy shifters, Cambio Rino brakes. The frame is interesting because it appears to be fillet brazed, with pressed in BB bearings. I'll post pics in due course. No tubing sticker unfortunately (well it might be hidden by the U-lock holder). Any info gratefully received.

not sure if they were made in québec... but sometimes you will see one pop up in the locals ads here.
it's a rare find,
we had a couple framebuilders here : ryffranck, marinoni, g. limongi, bertrand, hutsebaut............ léonard (i've only seen low-end frames though)

PS : i've only seen columbus SL le crocos

some info on this page.
http://www.velocia.ca/forums/le-cafe...-le-croco.html

last post seems to indicate the guy was a montréalais of 'tchek' (mispelled in OP?) origins... operating in the north-western part of town. Léo Le Croco was his name.

http://imageshack.us/a/img854/8657/vspr.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img841/912/qrho.jpg

I've been wanting a Le Croco ever since I first saw one in about 1981. This is about what I remember of those days in my native Vancouver.

In the early 1970's I met a Czech immigrant named Jorge Horacek. Jorge, or George as we called him, had come out of Czechoslovakia after the Dubcek's reforms to the Czech communist party prompted Warsaw Pact members to occupy the country and depose the government.

Jorge's home town was Brno. It was here during his youth that he became a fervent road racer. Teams were highly organized with strict regimens of training, diet and loyalty. Racers were expected to repair and maintain their own machines. They were often competing against western teams with much better and more exotic equipment, so they developed techniques and fitness to compensate.

By 1980 or so, Jorge was ready to re-enter the world he loved — bicycles. He set up a shop in Vancouver’s Kitsilano area near 4th and Alma. It was almost solely dedicated to competition and sports machines — a rarity at the time. As the first months passed, he picked up a coterie of local “bad boys” who needed something to do. They had the juice; they just needed a kick in the ass and some leadership. So Jorge formed what he called his scuderia. His role was one he brought with him from his youth. He was boss, trainer, and “papa”. He cooked for them and taught them nutrition. The lads had to buy their own bikes, but the shop was theirs to work on them and learn mechanics. Training was a daily routine, and scuderia members could be expelled for being absent.

At the same time Jorge was forming a team, he was also in contact with the Czech ex-pat community in Montreal — cyclists, and as it turns out frame-builders and the creators of Le Croco. Jorge began stocking these gorgeous frames ... supplying them as either frame sets or complete bicycles. The one in your picture seems odd to me because I do not remember seeing a braze filled one before. Perhaps memory fails me.

More time ... and two things began happening in concert with each-other. These young “bad boys” of the neighborhood began closing the gap on rival, established teams in criterium races. Also, Jorge was selling beautiful hand-crafted racing machines at prices that were embarrassing some businesses that had a lot of money, prestige and corporate muscle behind them. Still, more Le Crocos in Columbus tubing continued to arrive from Montreal with their beautiful finishes. Jorge was satisfied with making a living, and if he was not getting rich, he was certainly doing what he loved. And then things got tough.

Jorge's scuderia was beginning to embarrass the racing establishment. Moreover, Jorge himself was gaining a reputation for his mechanical skills and knowledge. He acquired a complete Campy tool set — a rare thing in Vancouver at the time. His shop was no longer the butt of bad jokes and slights. And his riders were surpassing anything expected of their age and experience. Some of them were poached and lured away by promises of greater things. And some later returned and were forgiven.

Then Jorge’s shop was burgled so many times that the insurance firms finally refused him coverage. He took to keeping an ex-police dog with him and sleeping in the workshop. The regional wholesalers and distributers were holding up deliveries, and in time they cut him off from supply altogether. In order to get parts he was forced to import from Eastern Europe — a region where Canadian distributors had neither presence nor control. I can remember his saying one morning, “I escaped from communism to get to capitalism only to find that I am having to do business with the communists.”

Friends and fellow travellers helped George as much as they could. I took part as a driver of a large Mercedes sedan that was loaned out as part of a convoy that drove into Washington State for one of the last big crit races the Horacek scuderia would ever attend. It was a great day, and the team did pretty well. The “bad boys” had become responsible young men. Jorge was a businessman and leader to be looked up to and respected. Le Croco had become one of the finest frame makers Canada had ever seen. But the game was over.

In the end, Jorge was defeated by rival businesses that had the power to freeze him out — simply by making sure that he could not be supplied. They could not cut him off from Le Croco, but as the shop wound down, Le Croco frames gradually stopped coming into Vancouver. How long they may have survived supplying whoever in Eastern Canada I cannot say. And I cannot say if the individuals involved went on to construct other frames under different names.

I lost touch with Jorge, and if anyone knows his whereabouts or anything about him, I’d be grateful for any leads or info. I knew him to be a highly intelligent, articulate, passionate man committed to a compassionate and civilized way of living. He was a serious fellow, but he could spread a grin that is still engraved in my memory. He loved cycling and cared for his young riders. He knew his machinery and was proud to sell Le Croco. As I say, I still want one. At the time I made do with my hi-ten Miyata. Big mistake, but I had my own struggles at the time.

Please try to rescue this frame and see if RandyJawa knows some things about Le Croco. I seem to remember ....

Lorne, thanks for sharing your memories with us, reads like this make this forum such a great place. I hope you'll find your dream bike one day.

Thanks all and especially Lenton58... I grew up just a few blocks from 4th and Alma, first got into bikes around 85-86... Do you remember the name of the store?

I saw the one for sale at Super champion, that store is very well thought of in some of the circles I run in... And a tasty selection of vintage steel.

All the le crocos I've seen so far are lugged which makes me more curious about my fillet brazed one. I've also never seen pressed in cartridge bearings on the bb like this one.

In any event it is going to be a tricky save. The screws holding the shifters are a solid block of rust, as is the rear derailleur. I imagine the seat post is in there pretty solid, although since its fluted the penetrating oil will have more surface to work on. It had been sitting in the previous owners shed for the past quarter century or so. Wheels (mismatched) are missing the bearings and axles.

Oh and Bloom87, I missed out on a beautiful Ryffranck last year... Still kicking myself.

Very much appreciate the local history Lenton58. I moved to Vancouver from Montreal several years ago, and love to hear reminiscences of the scene here. Like bloom87, I only ever encountered Le Croco bikes via the listings in Montreal from time to time. A knowledgeable acquaintance had one when I was back living there last year (much too small for him, a deal he picked up on the South Shore to part out); I never saw it in the flesh, though. Brilliant yellow. Very nice frame based on pics I saw. As suggested already, I've come across mainly lugged examples in Columbus.

I'd certainly be likely to pounce on one in my size if circumstances conspired for it...but might hold out for a nice Cyclops.

Sorry guys, in an unlikely way I have forgotten the name of the shop.

Kitsilano was my neighborhood for many years. All sorts of fascinating people went for beers at the pub that was nearly directly across 4th Avenue from the bike shop — 'Jerry's Cove', named after a pioneer hand logger in the area. Tradesmen, actors, artists, academics, soldiers, labourers of all types — it was a sort of neihgourhood living room until it evolved into a yuppie wine bar to pay for the owner's addiction to Jaguars.

On the same opposing blocks as the bike shop on 4th, there was a gun smith, an antique-come-junk shop, a drug store and a small bank. A good friend of mine, Jackie Haliburton, had a painted-fashion shop next door to Jerry's — now across from the "flat-iron" Europa hotel in Gastown. There were also a couple of decent little European restaurants, and one of first little European style cafe's further east up the road. Those two blocks or so was a vibrant little community of ordinary life. But it changed radically as it became sheik, gentrified and prohibitively expensive for all but the most well-heeled. Long-time denizens migrated into the East End, or into the remaining affordable rents in the Commercial street area. Others just left the city. One report recently claimed that Vancouver was now the world's number one most expensive city.

Curiously, the last time I was in Vancouver, I saw boom bikes all over the place — the Gitanes, Peugeots, Lorne Atkinsons and many others. And better steel was around as well, never mind the fixed gear craze. A friend explained that young people had been digging them out of their parents' and grandparents' basements and were riding them instead of buying cars. So I began stopping young folks on the street as well as my alma mater, UBC of UBC. During pleasant chats youngsters often confirmed that this was just the case. And they seemed pleased that I had taken notice. (I did not come across any Le Croco.)

Someday I may stumble onto photos or negatives of the 4th and Alma area, and I'll put them up here. Undoubtedly they will show a bunch of bikes wired up to posts and poles around Jerry's Cove. Who knows, my stolen Raleigh Lenton Sports might even be among them.

Here's a proper picture of the frame. Apologies that it is non-drive side... there's not much to see of the drivetrain though. Chain was so rusted a link fell of in my hand.

Re Kitsilano, the junk store and Jerry's Cove are still there last I checked, although the pub has lost some of its original character.

slowerplease-

Le Crocos used to be sold at High Park Cycles in Toronto. I seem to recall them being built in Montreal by a new Canadian (Czech? possibly) framebuilder named Mandaric. Mandaric eventually went on to work in the U.S. He even had a Mandaric 853 frameset tested in Bicycle Guide Magazine but I have not been able to find the back issue. Perhaps another member of the forum can do so? I recall that the write up briefly discussed his career in Canada as part of the background to the Mandaric road test.

The ones I saw in the metal were nicely finished and painted.

Well ... there is one more piece in the puzzle.

From what Jorge used to tell me, there was more than one individual involved back east in Montreal, but that could still mean that Mr Mandaric was the prime of only builder.

Well this is strange. Saw THAT VERY bike for sale here in Ottawa.

http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-se...AdIdZ527023292

No mystery there, that's the ad... seller obviously hasn't taken it down yet!

I moved out east several years ago for work... Vancouver is a nicer city, no doubt about it, but the cost of living there is out of control. On the other hand, the selection and price of used bikes in Vancouver is way above what you find out here.

The shop was BRNO Cycles

YES! Of course! How could I have forgotten! As I mentioned above, Brno was the owner's home-town. Not to pry ... but would you like to share how it is that you knew, or knew of the shop?

A bit embarrassed ... but then I am the sort of dude who has to look up his own phone number! And don't ask me how long ago I repacked the BB or overhauled the hubs!

I am in Vancouver and was familiar with BRNO back in the day. I really enjoyed your story about the history of the shop, I was riding then but only had one friend who was racing and he was with a different team/shop and so you filled in some good details.

You never know ... perhaps we bumped into each other.

I deliberately left out some details in my story. There are things that I cannot back up beyond my depending on 2nd and 3rd party renderings.* Things I cannot prove or ultimately be responsible for. Some pretty inflammatory stuff was happening, and some it was very ugly. I felt badly for Jorge. He got it stuck to him because he would just not lie down. He was pretty much a live-and let-live sort, but when provoked he did not suffer fools gladly. And he had that Czech national predilection for irony, satire and stinging logical retort. And it was very sharp even in his adopted language.

I wish I had the eyes and ears then as I do now. Even then I was neither so young nor short of some life experience. But I may have missed some of the drama and nuance that was swirling around me. Le Croco was very much at the center. I remember looking in the shop window and looking at the dispay like some other people might look at a Lotus Elise.

EDIT: * Jorge told me a lot of the stuff I knew — and know — himself. It was first hand info that was up-close and personal.

Possibly we did!

The first Le Croco bikes that I saw on the road were in Deep Cove, hard core roadies that were connected to "The COVE" bike shop, legendary BC MTB pioneers. Also, the first aero brake levers I ever saw were on a Le Croco. I stared and stared. Finally, the Le Croco graphics are awesome, right up there with Cyclops.

Amazing! I was drove taxis in that neigbourhood on and off for some time. I saw the shop but never visited it in person. Another "I should have ..."

I just traded a mystery Reynolds butted frame for a Le Croco. It needs some work, but the make's backstory and mystique is much more inspiring to me than the shoulder shrug inspired by the mystery frame.

My Le Croco has Reynolds 753 stickers on it. With the headset installed it felt very similar in weight to the mystery frame with no headset. It has an Italian threaded BB Shell and Campy dropouts.

Now I need hires pictures of Le Croc logos. preferably with rulers beside the logos. I'd appreciate any pictures that I can get. I am hoping to have reproductions made.

Once I clean it up a bit, I will post pictures including logo pictures.

Le Croco
 

Until last summer Le Croco was my riding buddy's only road bike. He still has it but has relegated it to trainer duty.

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/...ps359e55ab.jpg

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/...ps07f49e11.jpg


ricklp, if you are stuck getting decal photos I will see if I can get them for you.

Brad

I would appreciate it. I figure the more pics I give the decal maker, the better. Mine are pretty beat up.

They are kind of weird cool logos, and I would love to get them right and make them a bit more durable than what was on there originally.

Until this one appeared I had never heard of them at all. I test fitted a set of wheels and really love the aggressive stance mine has.

The paint looks pretty tough to duplicate though. Three colors all metallic. Purple, Light Blue. Turquoise. Fading to each color change.

I do not care for the turquoise, but over all I like the frames's looks.

I was hoping to go all Dura Ace 7700 for the components, but since the auction looks like it will be crazy expensive, I will likely go 7800 and match my carbon bike's config. I will lace up the 7700 hubs I have with Open pro rims with dt comp spokes though. It is similar dimensions to my Carbon road bike, so hopefully it feels similar fit wise.

My wife threw out my Italian Road bike frame years ago, and I wanted something to replace it, I think this will be a good unique solution.

Any thoughts on a value for this frame? Is it worth paying for a repaint? I have painted a custom car through shear force of will, patience and lots of wet sanding. Is it worth doing over myself with automotive paint? Should I try the fades? Or should I just Powder Coat? I have a good powder guy who can get some decent colors, and does nice work, but I do not see bikes in there often. ANy trusted Toronto bike refinishers less expensive than VeloColour?

Thanks in advance,