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Old TA crank on a Campy BB spindle?

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Old TA crank on a Campy BB spindle?

Old 12-03-13, 09:40 AM
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Old TA crank on a Campy BB spindle?

I've done some reading online about doing this but would like to hear from someone who has actually tried it.
I understand that both Campy Nuovo Record and TA were ISO tapered but that there may be some slight differences in the square tapers.
I'd like to use the mid 70's TA Pro crank but my TA axle is shot. Sure, I could get another TA axle but, I just happen to have this Campy NR BB here.

Anybody have any direct experience? Pitfalls?

Thanks
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Old 12-03-13, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
I've done some reading online about doing this but would like to hear from someone who has actually tried it.
I understand that both Campy Nuovo Record and TA were ISO tapered but that there may be some slight differences in the square tapers.
I'd like to use the mid 70's TA Pro crank but my TA axle is shot. Sure, I could get another TA axle but, I just happen to have this Campy NR BB here.

Anybody have any direct experience? Pitfalls?

Thanks
Yes, no problemo.
Phil Wood way back made three different double chainwheel bottom brackets, the model suitable for TA and Campagnolo cranks was the same. Bare in mind though that you can adjust the Phil from side to side to obtain the best chainline, I think you will find that the two cranks will present the chainrings a different amount from center when using the same spindle. Your needs will determine if that works for you.
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Old 12-03-13, 10:00 AM
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I've used all kinds of combination of spindles and cranks. Its obvious when they are not compatible.

One thing though is cranks are spaced differently. Watch the chainline. Again, its obvious when its assembled and the chainring is hitting the chainstay, or the front derailleur can't be adjusted out far enough.

Combinations I have used without any problem:
Stronglight spindle/Nervar Star crank
SunTour Superbe spindle/Campy crank
Japanese? /Stronglight 49d
Sugino spindle/Stronglight 93

Word of caution though. I build bikes to ride. If the parts fit and stay put, and perform well, its a success. Not to picky in other words.
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Old 12-03-13, 10:12 AM
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Thanks guys. I'll definitely have to mount the crank with front derailleur installed, it sounds. I note there seems to be plenty of crank taper showing with the arm installed by hand, but not tightened down, so it doesn't look like the bolts will bottom out on the axle. But the chain line thing is a good caution.

Those are some interesting combos, Big Ring. I don't know much about this stuff but I wouldn't have thought a Sun Tour spindle would play nicely with a Campy crank. Same with the other Japanese spindles with Stronglight cranks. But, if they work, they work.
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Old 12-03-13, 10:14 AM
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The crank may sit further inboard on the Campy spindle, I believe? I tried to fit a TA crank on a Campy bb and it was grinding against the stay and cup, if I recall correctly. Of course, your mileage may vary. Only one way to find out....
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Old 12-03-13, 10:17 AM
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I did mount a SL 93 on a generic Shimano BB without a problem. The spindle was OA 4mm different but still shifted fine, SL 118/Shimano 114. I have spacers should I need them.
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Old 12-03-13, 10:20 AM
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Didn't TA use french-tapered spindles and Campy ISO? In my experience french-taper is pretty close to JIS, not ISO. But try it on there and see if you can rock the spindle back and forth at all when you push it on as far as you can by hand. If not, it should work, as long as you still have enough space that it won't snug up all the way to the shoulder when you tighten the bolt.

I've used French cranks with Japanese BB sets with good results too.

Last edited by SuperLJ; 12-03-13 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 12-03-13, 10:26 AM
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I'm pretty sure I have an NOS TA 344 spindle if you need one.
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Old 12-03-13, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bibliobob View Post
The crank may sit further inboard on the Campy spindle, I believe? I tried to fit a TA crank on a Campy bb and it was grinding against the stay and cup, if I recall correctly. Of course, your mileage may vary. Only one way to find out....
Ah. Good point, Bob. I note the right hand measurement of the two spindles is different. TA spindle is longer. But I figured it was the thick cup difference with Campy. Have to try it.
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Old 12-03-13, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
I'm pretty sure I have an NOS TA 344 spindle if you need one.
PM sent. Thanks Colonel
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Old 12-03-13, 10:44 AM
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I've put a Campy Record crank on a Stronglight 118mm spindle with no issues, but I guess that's not very helpful.
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Old 12-03-13, 11:15 AM
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This might be useful to some: https://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html
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Old 12-03-13, 12:04 PM
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All very interesting. And a bit confusing, to me, anyway. I note in that Sheldon chart, SJX, that it shows the #344 spindle as being 118.5 in length. Colonel wrote to tell me the Sutherland's 6th edition shows 116.5, with an A-B-C measurements as 30.0 - 55.5 - 31.0. And that the "closest" taper is JIS!

My 344 spindle is 115 long and measures 28.0 - 55.5 - 33.0.

I'm thinking that TA may have standardized their spindles, or, the spindle used on the mid 70's Professional crank became obsolete. With the same center measurements between the races, but longer length, maybe the "newer" spindle worked out to be the same as the older one. Not sure.

However, Bibliobob has a good point. I did just take another look at my Sutherland's 2nd edition and note they used something called "end factor", a bit confusing but it appears the Nuovo Record right hand end factor was 6. and the TA right hand end factor was 9.5. Which means the crank will, theoretically, sit 3.5 mm further inboard on the Campy spindle than the TA spindle. Guess I'll just have to try it and see if it works.

My main concern was the spindle flats, and now that Sutherland's 6th says closest is JIS, and SuperLJ mentions "French" tapers, I'm not sure I'm less confused than before. But, I'm easily confused. Thanks guys.
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Old 12-03-13, 12:41 PM
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Since everyone wants to quote manuals and ignore actual experience, my comments have been redacted

Last edited by Ex Pres; 12-04-13 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 12-03-13, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
I have to disagree that Stronglight is closest to JIS - despite what Sutherland's says.
Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
Now, it seems that most sources reference Stronglight and TA spindles as much the same. Based on your TA 344 not being the same as a Stronglight 344, maybe French (TA) /= French (Stronglight).
I thought we were talking about TA in this thread. You have a Stronglight spindle that is marked "344"?
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Old 12-03-13, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
I thought we were talking about TA in this thread. You have a Stronglight spindle that is marked "344"?
I don't recall if it's actually marked 344 - Probably I referenced SB and saw that the 344 in his chart measured 118.5. I think the spindle is marked 118 (but measures longer).

The reason I brought in my Stronglight experience is because SB and others say older TA and Stronglight are the same. But maybe they're not.
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Old 12-03-13, 03:19 PM
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I know it was done in the olden days, and I've heard it poo-pooed. Personally, I'd just try it and see if it works.
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Old 12-03-13, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
I know it was done in the olden days, and I've heard it poo-pooed. Personally, I'd just try it and see if it works.
Olden days? Geeze, you must be an aged cus, Dbakl. You know, I will try it but my hesitation was that I was afeared it might change or damage the taper in the TA crank if they are slightly different than the Campy's. But, I believe I'll jump in.

Thx.
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Old 12-03-13, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
Olden days? Geeze, you must be an aged cus, Dbakl. You know, I will try it but my hesitation was that I was afeared it might change or damage the taper in the TA crank if they are slightly different than the Campy's. But, I believe I'll jump in.

Thx.
Been at this since 1969 (10-speeds) and balloon tires since i could hold a hammer or an adjustable wrench. One of my earliest bicycle memory is helping a friend remove the gastank from his bike to "modernize" it.

Worth getting the right TA spindle if concerned. I just got a complete TA BB on ebay for my Moto Gran Jubilee.
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Old 12-03-13, 03:45 PM
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There were two versions of the TA 344 spindle, they were 114.5 and 116.5mm long. More details here. From that you can see that they were the same except for a 2mm difference on the non-drive side, with no difference in chainline.
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Old 12-03-13, 03:48 PM
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You pre-date me Dbakl. But only by a coupla years. Yes, I should just get the proper spindle I guess. Kind of liked the idea of just using this Campy, since I have it already, but would like to keep the TA crank on the bike. TA cups are OK it seems.

So, how did you modernize the gas tank? Paint some cool flames? Pin striping?
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Old 12-03-13, 04:02 PM
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How can it damage the crank if they're all 2?
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Old 12-03-13, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Metacortex View Post
There were two versions of the TA 344 spindle, they were 114.5 and 116.5mm long. More details here. From that you can see that they were the same except for a 2mm difference on the non-drive side, with no difference in chainline.
Thanks Metacortex. I hadn't seen that thread. Having the spindle out of the bike makes it tricky to measure the cup edge to spindle end but there is a bit of a "ghost" on the spindle where the drive side cup was so it appears I have the shorter spindle. 114.8 long and 22 mm fixed cup to spindle end.

That diagram , while helpful, also makes it tricky to compare race to end measurements one would "normally" use. But the info is very helpful. Thank you.
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Old 12-03-13, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
How can it damage the crank if they're all 2?
Well, that was my initial question, GB. With Sutherland's 6th saying the closest taper was JIS, I wasn't sure.
Is JIS 2 degrees too? I don't have any JIS stuff.
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Old 12-03-13, 04:17 PM
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JIS is also 2. It's just stubbier. The small end is bigger, but the taper is the same.

Last edited by Grand Bois; 12-03-13 at 04:21 PM.
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