Masi GC Question
 

Hi guys,

Would anyone know if a CAMPAGNOLO Veloce 8 Speed Group would work with this particular model Masi from early 80s? The FD is a braze-on but also includes 30mm clamp. I don't want to buy this if I can't use it. It includes all pieces for brifter shifting.

Also, I know the BB is Italian thread (also in kit) but would the headset be too?

Thanks.

Most likely a 126mm rear spacing on the Masi frame.... 8 speeds means you will need at least 130mm. It's up to you, you can either just squeeze the wheels between the dropouts, or do a coldset to 130mm and have a much easier time taking off and putting on the rear wheel which is no fun when you have to also manage the chain and pull back on the rear derailleur at the same time.....

80's GC would likely have a 28.6mm diameter seat tube. You would need to shim the front derailleur clamp accordingly, or find one intended for a 28.6 tube.

I am not sure what this particular model of Masi is, in general:

Be sure to factor in the downtube shift cable stops/adjusters that will be needed to bolt over the shifter bosses. The rear triangle spacing will probably be different. The frame most likely will need to be wider 130 mm from 126. Yes, you can probably manually spread it to get there but be sure to have the derailleur hangar aligned with the wider wheel in position for best shifting.
Even if the headset is English, you can assemble it, English on Italian is a Class B fit but the difference is the inclusive angle of the threads, not the diameter or pitch.

If the group has a triple front, there is a small chance of interference with the chain stay and the small ring. Masi did not indent their chainstays for chainring clearance, they compressed them, to various degree.

These are the measurements:

Seat tube (c-t) = 58cm, (c-c) = 56cm
Top tube (c-c) = 56cm
Chain stays (c-c) = 41cm
Head tube length = 152mm
Rear spacing = 126mm
Seat post dia. = 27.2mm
BB = Italian thread 70mm

I initially just wanted to get a group that would make it period correct but thought I'd add a more modern drive. My LBS can cold set the frame.

Thanks for the responses. Much appreciated.

I set up my '86 Masi with Campy 8-speed shifting a Shimano 7-speed cluster. Works great and you don't need to re-space the rear drops, you just use one less click.

http://www.thejennifers.com/Bike_Pics/Masi/Masi11.jpg

I'd go with jeirvine's suggestion of using 7spd cluster and just avoiding the last click. I'm not a fan of cold setting a nice old frame, more on principle than whether or not it would work. My GC has SR derailleurs and a Regina Extra 7-sp freewheel. It shifts just fine.

It sounds to me like your bigger issue is brifters vs downtube shifters. I set up a Trek with Accushift levers, a SunTour Vx derailleur, and SunTour 6-speed freewheel. Shifted just fine. If the pull ratio of your derailleur is the same as the Veloce brifters, you might be able to work. It would be fun to try (well, I think it would be fun), and if it fails you can still go the cold set route.

I have a 1980 Masi GC which was built with 5-speed and 120mm rear spacing. I had it opened up to 126 (at Schwab Cycles in Denver, CO) not long after I got it (about 1986), and have used a wide range of 7-speed freewheels (not cassettes) on it with no dropout chain rub issues. It's all NR, friction shifted. Tubing is unknown, but standard diameters.

It also uses 27.2 seat post.

My 1984 (or so) Mondonico in Columbus SL came with a 126 rear spacing, and an Ann Arbor shop opened it up to 130.

No problems with either of these alignments and cold-settings.

This bike is a really great marriage of old and (somewhat) new. Great work. Makes me wonder whether I could do the same with a first gen chorus rear derailleur. I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for some 8spd ergos.

Thanks! Most choices were based on what I had on hand, but It does all work quite well together.

Thanks for chiming in guys.

Since my spacing is already 126mm, I'm just going to cold set it to give me more options.
So, I literally need everything and just want to make sure I get the right parts. I know I need an Italian threaded BB but still not sure if the headset needs to be Italian or English threaded - anyone? I wouldn't mind going with some older 8-speed Shimano 600 or Campy or even a mix. I plan to use this bike a lot and want to take my time in finding the right parts.

That's a beautiful bike!

Jeirvine, the FD isn't braze-on, right? If that's the case, will a 30mm clamp work? Thanks.

If your frame is without a braze on mount, then No, a 28.6 mm clamp is required. The Campagnolo 28.6 mm clamps are long gone, all now used or NOS by lucky hunting now. Alternatives would be a 28.6 clamp diameter derailleur from somewhere else. Or a 28.6 mm diameter clamp that provides a braze on style mount to affix your braze on derailleur to. Last would be to shim it, but that is not a choice I would recommend.

Jeirvine's '86 Masi has a braze on front derailleur mount.

I installed my 1st-gen Chorus rear mech on my GC just to compare it to the NR that came on the Masi. It fit quite well on the dropout and adjusted easily. In friction mode it shifted very well. I could not tell you how it would do in an indexed setup. I'm not sure Campy designed that early Chorus for indexing, did they? Perhaps in the B mode with the angled parallelogram it would index well. In the A mode the design geometry is lacking compared to the NR and SR.

But in the end, try it and see! Especially if you have a set of 8-speed Ergo levers on hand - it's always worth it to put a set of those on a bike!

Thanks.

My 1980 is clamp-mount, not braze. The transition occurred somewhere in that time frame.

Yes - my FD is braze on. I don't think the 1st gen Chorus RDs were designed for indexing, but they do shift well in the "B" position, where they are actually the first Campy slant parallelogram unit (I think).

I decided to go with a Campagnolo Veloce 8 speed group. Would anyone be able to tell me what BB I would need to order as this particular group's BB is English threaded?

You will require an Italian threaded bottom bracket. Time to search ebay for a Campagnolo unit. Otherwise, you need to measure the one you have to begin to reference what you need. A Phil Wood would be good, but not cheap, one from SKF, (compass bicycles) You might find one from Velo Orange... each has a few to choose from, time for a measuring caliper.

Basically, from a width perspective Italian is no wider than English Overall, the difference is the width of the BB shell, 70 mm for Italian 68 for all others in this time frame. Yes, there is a bit of referencing to do regarding tapers.

Here are some. I hav no idea if the price is right or what not but maybe you need some of the other things in the ad too?
http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/bik/4239891592.html

Would this one work?
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/bik/4218310051.html

Thx. A little research shows that my first gen chorus derailleur may not play nice anyways. I think i'll just keep my eyes peeled locally and see if I can score a deal, or make a trade.

I have a spare NOS Veloce BB that is Italian threaded, but it is I think for a triple, at 115mm.

Thanks but you are correct. That would be too wide for my use.