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Need source for french headset

Old 12-17-13, 01:37 PM
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Need source for french headset

I haven't dealt with this issue in a while. I salvaged a 70's Motobecane Mirage frame, These bikes make me paranoid sometimes (because I also have an 80's Super Mirage which turned out to be *Swiss thread*, but the headset was okay, thank god. )

So I don't know if this new Mirage swiss or french, if it's 70's or 80"s. I know they tooled with Swiss for like three years, then went to BSA.

Is there a way to tell? I don't remember seeing any serial number charts like the one for Raleighs.

I think Tange makes replacements. Anybody got a good link for a source, or if anybody has a used one for sale, PM me.

Thanks.
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Old 12-17-13, 01:46 PM
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VeloOrange makes a French-thread headset. (I just put on a project Motobecane. It's a nice unit.)
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Old 12-17-13, 03:45 PM
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I just used a Velo Orange one a customer's PX-10. Quality is good, price reasonable, it worked fine. Bought a second to keep in stock at the shop.
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Old 12-17-13, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by IknowURider
I haven't dealt with this issue in a while. I salvaged a 70's Motobecane Mirage frame, These bikes make me paranoid sometimes (because I also have an 80's Super Mirage which turned out to be *Swiss thread*, but the headset was okay, thank god. )

So I don't know if this new Mirage swiss or french, if it's 70's or 80"s. I know they tooled with Swiss for like three years, then went to BSA.

Is there a way to tell? I don't remember seeing any serial number charts like the one for Raleighs.

I think Tange makes replacements. Anybody got a good link for a source, or if anybody has a used one for sale, PM me.

Thanks.
I've never heard mention of Swiss threading in anything other than bottom brackets. Swiss threads are nothing more than French threading with a left handed thread on the fixed cup. Don't think it would affect the headset.
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Old 12-17-13, 04:05 PM
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There are no Swiss thread headsets.
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Old 12-17-13, 04:22 PM
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... Swiss threads are nothing more than French threading with a left handed thread on the fixed cup [of the bb]...
yup.

you won't want to go the following route for a mirage, but for my grand record, i bought the two separate french threaded campy record headset pieces (on ebay) swapping them for the bsa pieces in a standard headset. saved about $100 that way, 'cause french campy headsets are $200 plus.

also had to mill the fork crown down to fit a standard crown race, but no biggie.

for a mirage, i'd look into the donor bike route. lots of mirages and nomads out there...

i wonder if it's possible to re-tap a french steerer to english thread?
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Old 12-17-13, 04:23 PM
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Velo-Orange or ebay.
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Old 12-17-13, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by eschlwc

i wonder if it's possible to re-tap a french steerer to english thread?
Probably smaller diameter, since the stems are. No problem using an English (or Italian) fork and headset.
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Old 12-17-13, 05:40 PM
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^ the internal diameter of the french steerer just depends on the bike. you usually don't know until you just try a different quill stem. my '76 moto, for example, has a french threaded steerer of standard diameter.

what i don't know is how english and french threads differ. you can probably re-tap in one direction (english to french or vice versa), but not the other.
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Old 12-17-13, 05:47 PM
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I did an ebay search for "french campagnolo" and found several reasonably priced headsets. Now reasonable to me is like $60-$80 for a VGC vintage campy. Seems nuovo record headsets are commanding $100+ for good examples but there were some nice gran sports on there.
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Old 12-17-13, 06:13 PM
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The Velo Orange headset may not work for your bicycle. It has a stack height of 41mm. I measured my Peugeot UO10 and discovered I had 37mm sticking out of the head tube. And also had to fit the centerpull brake thingy.

From a photo by verktyg:



Read this.
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Old 12-17-13, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by eschlwc
what i don't know is how english and french threads differ. you can probably re-tap in one direction (english to french or vice versa), but not the other.
Technically it would be cutting a new thread with a die. A tap threads a hole.
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Old 12-17-13, 07:42 PM
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I just got a Velo ORange one, looks nice. I wish they would use ground races, instead of stamped ones.
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Old 12-17-13, 07:56 PM
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I have one or two French headsets I'm not using. Send me email. It will take a couple of weeks to find them. They're up in the country.
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Old 12-17-13, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclotoine
I did an ebay search for "french campagnolo" and found several reasonably priced headsets. Now reasonable to me is like $60-$80 for a VGC vintage campy. Seems nuovo record headsets are commanding $100+ for good examples but there were some nice gran sports on there.
Are you sure about that? I only found the one from Spain, it has been there a while, and it looks a little suspect (especially the crown race).
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Old 12-17-13, 09:36 PM
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Too bad VO didn't make their French thread headsets less than 41 stack height. They could've sold a whole lot more of them.
Not many French bikes from the 70s came with a 41 mm headset.
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Old 12-17-13, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by eschlwc
what i don't know is how english and french threads differ. you can probably re-tap in one direction (english to french or vice versa), but not the other.
Both the diameter and the thread are different: English is 1" (25.4mm) x 24tpi (0.95mm); French is 25mm (0.98") x 1mm.
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Old 12-18-13, 12:35 AM
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^ i guess that means an english steerer could be cut to accommodate french threads, but not the other way around. and, in practice, that sounds like an absurd thing to do.
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Old 12-18-13, 01:03 AM
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@IknowURider: you never really said what was wrong with your old headset. Is it gone ?

Personally, I would not invest a whole lot of money in a salvaged Mirage. Just not worth the hassles.
Look for a junked Peugeot...I'm pretty sure that will work. The standard fix is to swap the fork for
something with standard threading.
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Old 12-18-13, 06:08 AM
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I have some pieces of a Stronglight P3 if that'll help. They were kindly sent to me by Whatwolf and there are some I can't use. Yours if you need them.
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Old 12-18-13, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by CMAW
Are you sure about that? I only found the one from Spain, it has been there a while, and it looks a little suspect (especially the crown race).
no I didn't pay close attention. So I looked again. You're right the crown race does look a little suspect.. there are also these, but I think the stack is too high.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Arab...item5d46f3ad12

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CAMP...item2ecba4bc9a

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CAMP...item2c77bab124
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Old 12-18-13, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
@IknowURider: you never really said what was wrong with your old headset. Is it gone ?

Personally, I would not invest a whole lot of money in a salvaged Mirage. Just not worth the hassles.
Look for a junked Peugeot...I'm pretty sure that will work. The standard fix is to swap the fork for
something with standard threading.
The headset that was on there was indexed on the bottom cup, and jury-rigged at the top. The fork that's on there appears to have been an original stock Tange Hi Ten. - They had full chrome on the Mirages- But who knows, maybe it was swapped for a standard fork. Interestingly, I might have 41MM of steer tube thread so a VO might be ok. Noglider, thanks, I might take you up on that.
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Old 12-18-13, 12:31 PM
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...I have personally never seen a Tange fork that was French threaded,
but if there were such things, a Motobecane is where you'd find one.

I would definitely try out a standard threaded top race on that to see if
maybe you don't really need a French thread at all.
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Old 12-18-13, 12:32 PM
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I was going to post a pic of the headset that was on there, it will make you cringe a little. But I brought the wrong thumb drive to the coffeeshop. Stay tuned. Thanks to all, yeah this french stuff is always confusing as hell, I've read all the Sheldon and I still get messed up.

While this is obviously not a Grand Jubillee, I am dealing with this because it's become my civic duty. I have a grail bike, a Tomassini, but I want a french bike for combat use, because this is the first one I've salvaged that's actually in my size. I've been through a couple Peugeots, they are great , but a little wierd in fitting me. I think this one will fit perfectly.

What's cool is this bike actually had some miles put on it , probably commuting, as far as cost goes, I got the bike for free so I'm already way ahead of the game. This is what happens when you are "that guy on his bike" that locals see every day , riding, rain or shine. So they know it will get worked on. I am also a huge fan of gaspipe frames for "getting stuff done", saves the better frames for the sunny days in the mountains.
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Old 12-18-13, 12:34 PM
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I absolutely LOVE my 62 CM 83 (I think) Super Mirage. I can do 12 hours in the saddle on that thing and feel no neck or shoulder pain the next day. Amazing.
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