Campy Super Record Hubs?
 

In 1987 or 1988 I bought a set of what were listed as Super Record hubs. Just the hubs, not a part of a group set purchase.
I have recently looked them up (VeloBase) and am a bit confused by the results.

It seems that the Super Record (with Ti spindles) are extremely rare since they were not sold as part of the group. They are etched "Campagnolo" "Record" - which I thought was odd as they were supposed to be "Super Record". VeloBase states that "Record" hubs were part of the Nuovo group (which was no longer cataloged at the time).

Mine look more like the Super Record Ti hubs than the Record hubs (including the "Record" etching).

So what do I have?

They look more like what is pictured for Super Record Ti (given some minor changes - like skewer designs) than they do Record (they have the black oil cover on both hubs. The pictured Record hubs only have this on the rear.).
Are they :
1. Record?
2. Super Record?
3. Super Record Ti?
4. Nuovo?

I can provide pictures, just let me know what I should document that would distinguish one from the other.

~Curious Monkey~

Impossible to give true guidance/opinion without pics. If you're thinking the axles may be TI, a simple magnet test can confirm/deny that.

Pics from both sides and the center barrels should suffice - hubs easily show everything in one or two pics.

DD

True, but part of the problem is one Campagnolo gave itself decades ago. The Record hubs came before they were called Record, way back we called them "pre-Record" but other than lacking the word RECORD stamped below the "globe" logo that is what they were, Record soon officially. When the "Nuovo Record" group was a term coined with the introduction of the Nuovo Record rear derailleur and soon followed by the introduction of the Record brakes... The "Nuovo Record" group was born, at least in the shorthand description by bike shops and bicycle product managers. The Nuovo Record group used Record hubs, crank and brake set. There was a Nuovo Record bottom bracket the Record cranks used, it has the reverse rifleing in the cup bores, but I digress. The reason to explain all this is that the names are kind of fluid.

Super Record hubs were to have ti axles... even listed in the catalog for a brief period, but not a production item. That same catalog shows the Super Record crank set having black chainrings... also a never made production item. Much later when "Super Record Reduced" was the go-to race ensemble there was a set of Record hubs that came in the "Super Record Blue" box, they had flat dust shields on the rear hub for more room for the 7-8 speed freewheels. "Super Record Reduced" was shorthand for Super Record for a group with steel Superleggera pedals and a Nuovo Record bottom bracket.
There were some other changes by this time with the elimination of the washers between the cone and the lock nuts, but essentially they were RECORD hubs and never got imprinted with SUPER RECORD, no matter what color box they came from. Bike shops would still call them Nuovo Record... So it goes.

Repecage knows Campy! To add to his history, the 1982 Campy catalog shows two SR gruppos; Ti and Steel. As you can see on the SR page, the Steel SR gruppo includes Nuovo Record components that replaced the ti SR components.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=361103

Well, I didn't want to confuse the OP too much ;)

I figured at least the magnet litmus-test could let him know he had TI or steel spindles, then I could let him know that the hubs were pretty much the same across the board for either SR or NR gruppos (as are the crankarms and brake calipers, as Repechage notes).

The only other difference I used to see on the hubs (assuming the engravings and all that were alike) were the color of the washers before they were dropped from use. Sometimes they were finished in black like the cones/nuts and sometimes chromed. I believe that was simply a cosmetic thing, but don't know when the change was made.

OP: different skewers evolved over time, but they never distinguished Super Record from Nuovo Record. As Repechage illustrates above, there never really was a difference over the long-run timespan between Super Record and Nuovo Record with the exception of the TI axles which were a very short run. I have heard all sorts of stories, but never a "confirmed sighting" regarding whether or not they reached production and then the consumer stage.

And, since you asked, there was a progression of quick release levers, but again, they applied across the board when updates were made. My pic below shows four variations (oldest to newest from the bottom):

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7...9535ecd7_b.jpg

DD

Velobase is a wiki. Not fact. It is a phenomenal resource and we are all grateful to Jon for this project, but we need to remember that it does not have all the answers.

Repechage basically explained it as best anyone could.

Yup. The steel SR gruppo was commonly known as "Super Record Reduced", and though the RD did have TI bolts, the pedal and BB spindles were steel. It's kind of funny to think these days how little TI there was in Campy's flagship gruppo, particularly as after a couple high-profile failures they had to remove and re-design the BB spindle, resulting in an unavailability of that component in TI.

DD

I would suggest there are only three variations there. The second from bottom being bent over a broom handle or something. I worked with a Hungarian mechanic who started racing in the 1970s and when I mentioned to him the practice of curving your quick release skewers his eyes lit up and he told me they used wood broom handles and hammered their flat skewers curved so they didn't get caught and flip open in a crash or whatever.

Well, it seems that Campy made quite a furball out of this group concept at one point.

I can tell you that:
1. They are definitely circa 1987 or 1988 items.
2. They have the washer between the cone and lock nut.
3. They have the latest model skewer handles (script logo) - the counter nut seems to have changes just as much
4. The "Record" on the hub centre really doesn't mean that much.
5. The black clip over the oil hole on the hub centre

I did the magnet check - odd that I didn't have a good magnet floating about. I ended up pulling my ancient Cateye Micro wheel magnet to do the job. Obviously not Ti.

Seems that what ever I call them, none of the options are really that helpful... They were sold as Super Record in 1988, so I'll continue to refer to them as such. Based on that catalog page, it looks like I have part number 1034 (VeloBase has list listed as Record, but part of the Nuovo Record group)

My 1988 Chorus stuff seems to be in a similar boat - the pictures on-line show a variety of options in skewer design, none of which match what I have. Even my Chorus cranks don't match many pictures (curved arms with no integral extractors). At least my C-Record components seems to match the available information. I think I still have the original manuals and other paperwork for everything, maybe the packaging as well. I'll have to dig through my parent's basement to see. Maybe I even have a period Nashbar or Performance catalog too.

Seems I out did my self back in high school when I built this machine.

Thanks for the help guys.
~Confused Monkey~

Oh, there are four variations all right. The second from the bottom is a front QR from the sparsely-produced pista hubset, ca. 1967/68. That hubset shows up in catalog 15 as 1036/1A and 1036/1P. The drawing distinctly shows a slightly curved front lever and more pronounced curve at the rear.

Here's a shot of the rear lever (top) to give you an idea - I'm pretty confident this wasn't bent over a broom handle!

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5442/7...5075f297_b.jpg

And here's a scan of the catalog page:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps155496a1.jpg

DD

If you ever sell them, then refer to them as Record, not Super Record, so as not to mislead the buyer.

It's also interesting that Zeus' top-end "2000" group from the same time period used much more titanium -- pedal spindles and cages, bottom bracket cups, axle, and bolts, rear derailleur pivot bolts, hub axles and quick release end caps.

Super Record hubs are a unicorn. I thought I had a set because the axels were ti, but was informed it was likely an after market upgrade. There might have been a (very) few given to teams, but there is little evidence that they were commercially available.

The fact that they were termed Super Record when you bought them may have more to do with when you bought them than anything else. During the Super Record era.

Good info here. From what I have read, there was never a gruppo as such. Campy gruppo's were collections of existing and new components over time. Smells like a marketing approach to selling. There appears not to be a relationship between a change and a date. "Improvements" and introducitons were done as needed and not driven by anything other than maybe races and riders needs.

Is this a fair assessment?

You know, has anyone actually seen a blue Super Record hubset box? Every set I've ever come across in a box has been encased in the classic Nuovo Record cream colored box.

DD

Can't even find a pic of one, D. Dude. All blue aside from the hub box:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Camp...-/111262519899

Yeah - I always see that in boxed sets on Ebay. Never a blue box. Guess that might well be a collector's item.

My favorite packaging by Campy was/is the SR headset box.

DD

Then you would be wrong.

We, decades later would like things nice and tidy. They are not. If you go back there was a reasonable reason for the Nuovo Record name for the revised or new components. The Record (Steel and bronze) rear derailleur was replaced by the Nuovo Record. The Record was still sold until stocks ran out. The Nuovo Record bottom bracket was sold along side the Record bottom bracket for quite a while, the Record persisted in use for Pista bottom brackets and for triples, and from my experience the stocks of French thread Record bottom brackets were long as those were new on bicycles for years after the Nuovo Record bottom bracket was introduced.
When the Super Record group was introduced I think in Paris, there were all sorts of rumors, (the reports were from a French magazine) that the black bits were black through and through, that it had ti bits for the brakes... black chainrings and Pista headset cups, it was over a year before we actually saw some bikes coming in with the group.

For those who became aware of Campagnolo in the middle to later 80's Super Record hubs would seem a legitimate description. But in error. The "blue box" for the hubs was a pretty cheap affair, equal in quality to the box used for the front derailleur, a cheap fold flat container. We would receive a group with this box and the next set that arrived would be in the pale yellow nicer box. Also, I have never seen large flange hubs in a "SR blue box".

If I were to be selling a set of vintage Campagnolo hubs I would be very tempted to call them Record and also Nuovo Record as so many were aware of that term for so long. Only if I had a very late set would I call them Super Record, and would probably call them Record/Super Record Steel to be clear.

Can I call my Honda Accord an Acura if I bought it from an Acura dealer ?

In Great Britain, your Acura is A Honda Accord.

I like the Honda Accord. But the Kyoto Protocol is a much better car.
G.W. Bush

Fignon's well known BB Ti spindle failure during a race sure did not win over confidence with Ti in components from riders and manufacturers. I think that's also why Campy also got off the weenie wagon when they designed their next generations of components into the 90's

I'm glad mine happened on a training ride, with a friend to push me back !