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Custom built bike

Old 02-08-14, 07:51 PM
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Flog00
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Custom built bike

I am currently planning my custom touring bike build.

This is my 50th birthday gift from my wife and she gave the green light to go all out.

www.tomiicycles.com has agreed to build me a frame/fork/stem/racks.

Give me ideas on a wheelset (650b)

Drivetrain, bars etc.

How would you equip a bike to be both functional and beautiful, money be damned.


Scott
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Old 02-08-14, 08:00 PM
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Happy birthday, and what a wonderful gift. Sounds like you have a great wife.
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Old 02-08-14, 08:18 PM
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I'm going through this right now, but on a pure road style century bike (so fewer choices, yet still very many).

My short list for a tourer would be a super compact triple, something like a 26/36/48 pulling along a 9 speed 12/27 (or 12/29 if hilly) shimano compatible cassette, run by your choice of C11 chorus brifters or bar ends, mated to GS ultegra RD (possibly older indexing MTB RD if you went with the 29) . Would run the FD on either a bar end or DT shifter either way for a tourer. No special chain tools would be necessary. Would mate that to an ultegra hub with appropriate choice of rim depending on your preference for tire width. Paul brakes with koolstops. Bars would be nitto noodles, saddle (for me) would be either a sella rolls or old fujita belt. Sorry if my choices scream utility over grace, but with a tourer I would stick with what I know and what works for me.

It's all upside, as few of the choices you make can't be undone, and your wife has already made you the big winner.
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Old 02-08-14, 08:21 PM
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You're going to love the process. I went through it a few years back for a Vanilla, and the wait was definitely worth it. Since you're posting in C&V I'll assume you want an "old" look but with new parts for solid performance over time? If that's correct, I had mine built in a light touring/rando style, and used a Campy 9 speed set up with mixed Record Triple crank and brifters. In a somewhat un-C&V moment I also chose to go with discs, and never looked back. This rig still stops better than any of my other rides, and as a bonus I never have to clean the brake track on the rims, a task I detest on all my other bikes. In the wet it's a godsend, especially on long descents. He went with Nitto for the cages, seatpost, and bars, and all look and work wonderfully. Rack is a Tubus and bags are Berthoud, no complaints about them either.

This is the bike I'll still be riding when all the others have been sold or given away.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 02-08-14, 08:22 PM
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Hey Scott,

I've sat around dreaming about a custom touring build...

Fully fillet brazed everything. Biplane fork.

Sun XCD cranks, Sugino rings- 50-42-28.
Phil Rivvy hubs.
Suntour XC Pro cantilever brakes.
Probably Ultegra 9s- they seem to have had the nicest looking long cage RD relatively recently.
I'll be evaluating a Nitto Dirt Drop stem and Noodle bar

Sure fire winner.
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Old 02-08-14, 08:26 PM
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Have you done any loaded touring? Do you intend to? Or will it be more of a light touring / century / gravel grinding bike?

My vote would be Campy Athena 11 with Chorus Ergos. Campy Record or Chorus rear hub, SON dynamo front hub. Bars are a personal preference thing...but I like shallower drops and shorter reach.

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Old 02-08-14, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 4Rings6Stars View Post
Have you done any loaded touring? Do you intend to? Or will it be more of a light touring / century / gravel grinding bike?

My vote would be Campy Athena 11 with Chorus Ergos. Campy Record or Chorus rear hub, SON dynamo front hub. Bars are a personal preference thing...but I like
shallower drops and shorter reach.
I do one week long tour each summer with my daughter. Usually not heavily loaded as my wife and son meet up with us most evenings.
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Old 02-08-14, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
Hey Scott,

I've sat around dreaming about a custom touring build...

Fully fillet brazed everything. Biplane fork.

Sun XCD cranks, Sugino rings- 50-42-28.
Phil Rivvy hubs.
Suntour XC Pro cantilever brakes.
Probably Ultegra 9s- they seem to have had the nicest looking long cage RD relatively recently.
I'll be evaluating a Nitto Dirt Drop stem and Noodle bar

Sure fire winner.
I like all your ideas.... I do like the idea of using Campy stuff too.
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Old 02-08-14, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post

Sugino rings- 50-42-28.
50-42 works very nicely w/ a 2-tooth progression in back. I currently run 50-42/14-16-18-20-23-26, but if I had 7 speeds, I would add a 15-toother to patch the top end gap. Without checking the exact values, I'll guess that 50-42/13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27 works well.

Emphatic recommendation on wheel set -- for strength and reliability, your best best is 32 or 36 spokes in a traditional 3X pattern (or 4X if 36 spokes and hi flange). Avoid radial lacing, paired spokes, and all other reduced spoke count patterns.
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Old 02-09-14, 10:24 AM
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So what are your ideas?

When I dream of it- it's going to be built by Ellis Cycles. Everything- head tube, seat cluster, bottom bracket- all smooth fillet brazing- and chromed. Totally fluid Terminator 2 look. Ritchey-esque Biplane Fork. The Pacenti is "nice," but I'd like the angled top plane like on the original Ritchey forks.

Tubing- whatever Dave Wages recommends.

Geometry wise... while right now- I'd have a lot of the geometry of my Trek 620. Everything feels "right" about that bike. I attribute a lot of that feel to having a wheelbase that's 3 city blocks long. We'll see how my Voyageur SP changes my tastes.

In any case- it's going to be a variation on the theme of the 1985-ish Touring Bike. Every braze on imaginable: rear cable stop, 3 bottles, midfork, dropout eyelets, pump peg behind the seat tube, a functional chainstay bridge...

I hadn't given 650B much of any thought until you brought it up... As someone who's been living with the stock of 27" tires available- there's a metric **** ton of tires available for 700C and a whole lot for 650B. I think I'll go with 700C. But with plenty of room in the fork and chainstay and brake bridges to allow for big kids' tires. I'd like the ability to be able to ride something stupid wide like 38s. That would be cool. And also the ability, if for some reason I go on a crazy crack binge and decide to want to mount caliper brakes- I want to be able to do that. If I want to.

Component wise...

I have not experienced the threadless headset/stem thing. I think that opens a wealth of possibilities, most of which I haven't even imagined, not to mention comprehended. I've never been a 'down low' rider. Rarely ever in the drops. I like to take in the sights of the ride- and I've got a bad hand- so I like to be on the ramps/hoods and relatively upright, but able to go to the drops if I so desire.

Bar wise- most of my riding has been done on the ubiquitous SR World Champion style bars. The Bellieri bars on my 620 are similar. Since winter, I've gotten a set of Nitto B132 and Noodle bars. We'll see how those go. On paper, I like the B132s.

Crank wise- I really like the Sun XCD cranks- they have a very classic look to them, and there's that whole "Suntour" thing they have going on. Phil Wood BB, because I've always wanted one. What I know of bikes has been the triples I've used have been handy when I need the granny. On my bike with a double- I stay away from some hills. When I've had a big ring of 48, I've actually missed the 50. I don't do the half-step gear counting thing- so I think a middle ring smaller than 45 is good. And a 28 granny has proven useful to me, especially when I have bags full of stuff. For pedals... I like platforms with clips & straps. My favorites have been some no-name ATB pedals with clips & straps. I could probably go all upscale or fancy pants vintage for the custom bike.

Wheels... Again, I hadn't really considered 650B, but I've kind of secretly longed for 700C- even though I've always said "27s are fine by me." I haven't given rims much of a thought- but something silvery-classic looking. Hubs... I love shiney high flange hubs. The Phil Wood Rivy hubs look really nice, and it's Phil Wood. So I'd go with the Rivy in the front, and in the back I'll go with the Sun XCD cassette hub, because it looks like the Rivy only comes as a FW hub and it gives another excuse for a Sun XCD part.

Shifters/derailleurs... A lot of thought goes into this because, in my mind, this is the nifty/tech-y moving parts cool part. On the other hand I don't know a lot of modern-y type stuff. My favorite shifters have been the old Command Shifters. They're perfect for me and where I ride- but they're Accushift. Need something new, but similar, and not to bulbous-y overmodern. Out of the modern-y type stuff, I think it's the Ultegra 6600 that had a 9 Sp setup with a triple, a long cage derailleur, and the derailleur looked relatively "classic" looking. So I guess that's RD, levers and shifters. If it's possible, a Suntour XC Pro FD would be cool- otherwise if the indexy thing is an issue, I guess the Ultegra will do.

Speaking of Suntour XC Pro- a while ago I picked up a NOS set of XC Pro cantilever brakes. I think those were the first parts I bought without a real need for them. A "someday" part. I've always thought they were spectacular looking- I want those on my shiney bike.


Oh- Tubus rear rack and Nitto front rack.


I think that pretty well covers it.

I think I've effectively usurped Scott's thread. Sorry about that.
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Old 02-09-14, 10:28 AM
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Supercompact Renee Herse crank (double).

Alloy Campagnolo brifters and derailers.

Custom RHM saddle.

Curtis Odom makes some beautiful hubs. Maybe a little flashy and maybe they're slightly too big on 650B rims.
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Old 02-09-14, 10:39 AM
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I just finished picking parts out for a similar build. Custom 650b frame, more money than I should have spent, etc, etc. But mine is more road/rando (light front load) than touring.

Chorus 11 mechs and shifters, White Industries crank (46-32), Paul touring cantis, and I'm building the wheels today ... white industries T11 to Pacenti SL23 rims.

Oh, and congratulations! That is a most excellent gift.
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Old 02-09-14, 10:55 AM
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I love these threads, and I love spending other people's money!

What are you using the bike for? It sounds like you don't need a loaded for bear tourer, but more of a sorts tourer/all'arounder.

I'd go with a Campy 10sp triple and a nice wide ratio on the back. Definitely source some silver record hubs. Dyad rims are a good option...they don't look awful and they're TOUGH. Titanium tubus racks because why not? Either berthoud fenders or Honjos...maybe tanaka copper, depending on the paint scheme? Paul cantis - wide profile on front, narrow rear. Berthoud saddle. Ortlieb bags. Custom head badge by Jen Green. Jack browns, or a similar tire.

Barplugs by Rootboy.
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Old 02-09-14, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post

Barplugs by Rootboy.
Definitely!!!

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Old 02-09-14, 11:41 AM
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Tomii builds some beautiful bicycles...

Short list...

Disc brakes are the way to go, cable actuated are user friendly which can be important if you are on the road. We prefer IRD as they have no plastic bits to melt (we use them on tandems as well)

We build a lot of 26 inch wheeled tandems and tourers because of better parts availability but our customers tend to do extreme touring... 650 B is a good option if that is not an issue.

Filet brazed with integrated racks is our most popular build option... having the racks flow from the frame is aesthetically beautiful, adds to the strength of the frame, and removes points of failure.

Biplane forks are what almost everyone wants as they provide great looks in addition to wonderful clearance.

The bar set up will depend on what makes you comfortable, I prefer Nitto stems and rando bars for their comfort and excellent quality.

Saddle for most will be a Brooks that fits your behind and will make you happy when you spend long days in the saddle.

We build our own hubs... but the choices for excellent quality hubs are nearly limitless.

Would not go past 9 speeds to reduce complications and make the bike more user serviceable... it comes in a better price point.

Bar end shifters with a switchable option for friction lets you swap cassettes if what you need isn't available.

Dynamo lighting is a no brainer.

This is what we usually do... I love the Ultegra drivetrain on this bike.



The big guy's bike... it has countless miles on it as he was touring for 60 days a year on this for a decade and knocking down 5000 miles on every trip.

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Old 02-09-14, 11:52 AM
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Nao said he will build me SS racks, titanium? hadn't thought of that.... damn I'll have to ask Nao. I am going to use my comfy, broken in B-17 honey saddle. Nao also wants me to use Honjo hammered or VO Zeppelin fenders. I will let him decide.

There is a Chorus NOS "touring set" on ebay right now that i'm considering. It's a 7 speed though.

Man, I appreciate the ideas and input.... t's a bit overwhelming to me.

I told Nao my affinity for the pewter and light blue Treks.. He said he is really excited about color possibilities.

I really like disc brakes but I'm considering cantis.

I have Acorn bags for light riding and just standard fare panniers for my yearly week long tour each summer.

The head badge will be a Tomii hand cast badge.

He is also making a custom chainstay protector and possibly a TT protector.

I'm getting a headache lol





Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
I love these threads, and I love spending other people's money!

What are you using the bike for? It sounds like you don't need a loaded for bear tourer, but more of a sorts tourer/all'arounder.

I'd go with a Campy 10sp triple and a nice wide ratio on the back. Definitely source some silver record hubs. Dyad rims are a good option...they don't look awful and they're TOUGH. Titanium tubus racks because why not? Either berthoud fenders or Honjos...maybe tanaka copper, depending on the paint scheme? Paul cantis - wide profile on front, narrow rear. Berthoud saddle. Ortlieb bags. Custom head badge by Jen Green. Jack browns, or a similar tire.

Barplugs by Rootboy.
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Old 02-09-14, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
Tomii builds some beautiful bicycles...

Short list...

Disc brakes are the way to go, cable actuated are user friendly which can be important if you are on the road. We prefer IRD as they have no plastic bits to melt (we use them on tandems as well)

We build a lot of 26 inch wheeled tandems and tourers because of better parts availability but our customers tend to do extreme touring... 650 B is a good option if that is not an issue.

Filet brazed with integrated racks is our most popular build option... having the racks flow from the frame is aesthetically beautiful, adds to the strength of the frame, and removes points of failure.

Biplane forks are what almost everyone wants as they provide great looks in addition to wonderful clearance.

The bar set up will depend on what makes you comfortable, I prefer Nitto stems and rando bars for their comfort and excellent quality.

Saddle for most will be a Brooks that fits your behind and will make you happy when you spend long days in the saddle.

We build our own hubs... but the choices for excellent quality hubs are nearly limitless.

Would not go past 9 speeds to reduce complications and make the bike more user serviceable... it comes in a better price point.

Bar end shifters with a switchable option for friction lets you swap cassettes if what you need isn't available.

Dynamo lighting is a no brainer.

This is what we usually do... I love the Ultegra drivetrain on this bike.



The big guy's bike... it has countless miles on it as he was touring for 60 days a year on this for a decade and knocking down 5000 miles on every trip.

So if you break the rack you've broken the bike? It's clean looking, but not sure this makes sense to me.
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Old 02-09-14, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
So if you break the rack you've broken the bike? It's clean looking, but not sure this makes sense to me.
You would be hard pressed to damage these racks under normal use... if you did we have a lifetime warranty that has yet to be used for that.
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Old 02-09-14, 01:51 PM
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Having a kickstand plate would be a great option.
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Old 02-09-14, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
You would be hard pressed to damage these racks under normal use... if you did we have a lifetime warranty that has yet to be used for that.
I'd be your first

In all seriousness - I don't think this would make sense, at least for me; I like having the option of removing the rack - or replacing it. Sometimes I change a bike up for purpose - or I might want to transport it, and a hard wired rack can't be removed to facilitate transfer.
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Old 02-09-14, 02:43 PM
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I only use a front rack one week each year. I take it off.


Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
I'd be your first

In all seriousness - I don't think this would make sense, at least for me; I like having the option of removing the rack - or replacing it. Sometimes I change a bike up for purpose - or I might want to transport it, and a hard wired rack can't be removed to facilitate transfer.
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Old 02-09-14, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by smallpox champ View Post
Having a kickstand plate would be a great option.
I just sent a inquiry about the kickstand plate. Thanks
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Old 02-09-14, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
I'd be your first

In all seriousness - I don't think this would make sense, at least for me; I like having the option of removing the rack - or replacing it. Sometimes I change a bike up for purpose - or I might want to transport it, and a hard wired rack can't be removed to facilitate transfer.
A hard wired rack is not a box I would check either.

I like to take off the racks from my Hollands, as I literally put them on for one long trip to the cabin in the summer.

I don't need the extra weight around town, as I have a Carradice and an Acorn that are plenty fine for most day trips in the metro.

Edit: Look into the Tubus Cosmo stainless steel rack. I found one used and it is quite overbuilt. Very nice design.

Last edited by gomango; 02-09-14 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 02-09-14, 03:03 PM
  #24  
WNG
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+1 on the kickstand plate. For mounting a centerstand unit for truly heavy-loaded touring.

I'm with SixtyFiver.....cable-actuated disc brakes. Why? Because the choice of 650B, but if you find on occasion you want to switch to 700C, there are no brake issues like canti bosses. If you are final on canti bosses, I'd take advantage of Tomii's design of sliding dropout plates like his son's mtb frame. A swap or adjustment to switch to another wheel size. A less simple and more complicated solution than discs.

IMHO, discs are justifiable for their superior stopping performance. A loaded tourer descending the Alps is a scenario that pops in my head.

I'd also make sure the frame and fork has ample clearance up to 45mm wide tires for versatility of tackling any number of touring surface.

The dynamo hub suggestion is a good one, just make sure consideration is given to design pathways to keep as much wiring hidden.
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Old 02-09-14, 03:12 PM
  #25  
KonAaron Snake 
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If you only ride one bike, I could see a dynamo making sense - but otherwise I see them as pretty pointless and limiting. The batteries on the good rechargeable LEDs are so good now, and move between bikes so easily, that dynamos don't make sense for most people. You're adding cost, weight and friction just to limit adaptability.
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