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What's the obsession of keep parts original?

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What's the obsession of keep parts original?

Old 02-10-14, 12:13 PM
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I have a couple of oldies, a 60s claud butler which is now restored back to original and it's a beauty. Would I take it for a big ride....no, but it rides really well about town.
therefore, I have chosen to restore my 50s(I think) joco with components able to get me up the hills in one bit and give it a bit of Welly on the flats, campag nuovo.
both classic bikes, both look great, both in my collection for totally different reasons.

Snydermans right IMO, I'm spending an unreasonable amount of cash on the joco but I guess I am obsessed.....what you going to do
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Old 02-10-14, 12:33 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by CroMo Mike View Post
Am I the only one who thinks it was rather rude of the other biker to roll up beside a stranger (the OP) and make negative comments about his bike? What's with that?
Some people can't keep their opinion to themselves, is what that is.

Seriously, I've seen guys make comments, loud enough to be heard, about the shape of a woman's body that they don't even know.

What's up with that, indeed.
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Old 02-10-14, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Andybrads View Post
Snydermans right IMO, I'm spending an unreasonable amount of cash on the joco but I guess I am obsessed.....what you going to do
Thank you.

I think it's okay to spend more than the bike is "worth" as long as the owner is fully aware that's what is happening. I've done it plenty of times and it's okay because it's worth it to me. I have twice into my 1983 Lotus Legend Compe than I could ever sell it for, but I know when it's finished it will be the only stock/original 1983 Legend Compe I have seen. Maybe one will surface, but I doubt it. How many people can say they own and restored the only one of something that still exists?

Heck, when I see an old Lotus bike on craigslist that has ratty factory original bar tape and dry factory original tires, I consider that a positive and not a negative.
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Old 02-10-14, 12:45 PM
  #29  
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I have the best of both worlds. The two Capos are very close in age.

Because a previous owner had already replaced the cranks and wheels and repainted the first one, and since its original Campag. Gran Sport front derailleur was worn out, I have taken the liberty of getting a nice custom paint job and updating it with with 1970-1980 components, as well as a 21st Century reinvention of handlebar mounting for water bottles. It is fun to ride and and pleasing to the eye. High flange hubs would arguably look better, so I may do that at some point.

In contrast, I bought the second Capo with almost all original equipment, although a previous owner had replaced the OEM 52-48 ringset with 58(!)-45. Finding the original Cami 14-16-18-20-22 freewheel too tight for my needs, I substituted an ultra-spaced 6-speed 14-26 and found brand- and period-correct 49T and 46T chainrings. The Japanese cluster is a bit of a stretch, but not a terribly visible transgression. I do not feel guilty about the larger freewheel -- when I worked at Bikecology, we replaced the OEM 14-21 freewheel with a 14-26 on almost every PX-10 we sold.

This debate is no different than what the car collectors go through all the time. At the annual Wavecrest Woodies meet in September, one sees everything from all-original power trains (including manual spark timing, ModelT controls, and a lack of front brakes) to "invisible" under-the-hood upgrades (electronic ignition, newer engine, automatic transmission, catalytic converter, etc.), to total street rod conversions which flaunt their anachronistic components. There are arguments to made for all, and it really depends on one's objectives -- collector "trailer queen" vs. daily driver.

With bicycles, my main rule is never do anything irreversible to a higher-end classic frame, such as cutting off an integral derailleur hanger. I did chisel off the UO-8's downtube shifter boss to accommodate my barcon conversion, but I would have had to do that for any replacement of those wretched OEM Simplex levers. Since I bought it as a bare frame when I worked at a Peugeot dealership, its OEM components might be considered what I first installed on it when I built it for my wife -- TA Professional crankset, SunTour VGT rear derailleur, Shimano Titlist front derailleur, Japanese wheelset, etc. As someone else pointed out, lots of higher end bikes were sold as bare frames, and buyers built them up to fit their needs.
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Old 02-10-14, 01:09 PM
  #30  
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I was going to change the Shimano Positron I derailleur on the 73 CCM Targa I recently fixed up. After cleaning it and learning that it was Shimanos first attempt at indexed shifting, I decided it deserved to be seen. Yah it's not very smooth or percise but it is super cool with the push pull cables. I have a bike with Ultegra so I know what I'm missing. I only hobby ride my C&V's so it's not a big issue.
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Old 02-10-14, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
Its like classic cars. You would want to maintain as much as originality with a 69 Boss 302 Mustang as possible but a 69 plain jane Mustang coupe with a 6 cylinder? I say go ahead and change the engine and customize it.
I'm kinda torn on that one.... Just about every fastback Mustang has been turned into a Boss or Mach 1 clone. My wife has a 23k-original-mile '70 Mach but is afraid to drive it lest some mindless texting metrosexual hit her. So her car sits in the garage.... I have classic Cougars. Two are CJ cars. Two are not. They have never been perfect concours specimens so they get driven. We also have a 34k-mile all-original '66 Comet Caliente with a 289-2V automatic. What makes it more rare is that it is a 4-dr Caliente. BUT in the 'collector's world' it is a grandma car, and not worth anything... We want to sell the Caliente, but don't want it to get parted out for the front clip and trim. Whatcha gonna do?
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Old 02-10-14, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bledfor Days View Post
I was going to change the Shimano Positron I derailleur on the 73 CCM Targa I recently fixed up. After cleaning it and learning that it was Shimanos first attempt at indexed shifting, I decided it deserved to be seen. Yah it's not very smooth or percise but it is super cool with the push pull cables. I have a bike with Ultegra so I know what I'm missing. I only hobby ride my C&V's so it's not a big issue.
I'm so glad to hear someone say something positive about Positron. I have a 1983 Lotus America with factory upright bars and factory fenders (only Lotus to have this combination of factory accessories, that's why I bought it). It also has the complete Positron system with the front freewheel and everything. It's a hoot to ride and works perfectly for it's intended market. I like shifting it while coasting through the corners, just because I can.
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Old 02-10-14, 01:32 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by CroMo Mike View Post
Am I the only one who thinks it was rather rude of the other biker to roll up beside a stranger (the OP) and make negative comments about his bike? What's with that?
That's why its prudent to compliment them back. Should have asked him what his fine plastic bike set him back... or... thanks for the raciest comment... or why are you wearing women spanx?... they sure make you look slim and hot... LOL
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Old 02-10-14, 01:41 PM
  #34  
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I guess there's always the thing that 'you own it, you can do what you want with it.'

And you can, but at some point, it's not going to be yours anymore, and someone may not have the taste you have/had.

There's a gorgeous Craftsman style house in our neighborhood- probably from around 1915. The outside has all the wonderful trim, at night you can see the beautiful built in cabinets. It's come up for sale a few times in the past few years. Despite the exterior of the house and what shows through the frontroom window- the house had been redone in the mid to late 80s. I'm not sure, but I think there original Nagel paintings on the walls. It was kind of like the BeetleJuice house, but just white and black with red accents.

Of course someone may dig that style, but the next succession of owners get to deal with what they know that house could or should be versus what it had been turned into.


Of course there's always "Bad Coconuts:"

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Old 02-10-14, 02:05 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
...With bicycles, my main rule is never do anything irreversible to a higher-end classic frame...
Much noted here in central Texas... Few years ago allot of Fixie guys in Austin and San Marcos campuses were taking classic frames and butchering them to make their Fixies - Not the case now - A Fixie conversion of a classic frame has kudos for having all its original lugs and even original paint if possible...

I think that has allot to do with Dad lending his kid his old bicycle for college - And somehow in his mind thinking it may find its way back...
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Old 02-10-14, 03:21 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Cougrrcj View Post
I'm kinda torn on that one.... Just about every fastback Mustang has been turned into a Boss or Mach 1 clone. My wife has a 23k-original-mile '70 Mach but is afraid to drive it lest some mindless texting metrosexual hit her. So her car sits in the garage.... I have classic Cougars. Two are CJ cars. Two are not. They have never been perfect concours specimens so they get driven. We also have a 34k-mile all-original '66 Comet Caliente with a 289-2V automatic. What makes it more rare is that it is a 4-dr Caliente. BUT in the 'collector's world' it is a grandma car, and not worth anything... We want to sell the Caliente, but don't want it to get parted out for the front clip and trim. Whatcha gonna do?
Can you adopt me? LOL

Very nice cars! I used to be a big Mustang fan about 20 years ago.

I know what you mean about the 4dr Caliente, not exactly desirable. Look at all the 4dr versions of cars used in demo derbies over the years when their 2dr versions were still worth high dollars.
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Old 02-10-14, 05:29 PM
  #37  
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my soap box

Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
Can you adopt me? LOL
I was thinking the thing. After reading this thread I thought I would toss my 2 cents in. I am not young, flexible and thin anymore, but I love riding still. My bars are higher, and wider. My gears are lower, my tires are fatter. I like fenders, and handlebar bags and rear racks and I still use downtube shifters, some of my bikes are friction, some are indexed. Only our Cannondale Tandem has STI (only aluminum frame too). I don't own a stock bike, probably cause I can't leave well enough alone. I admire basement finds that are original, and left that way. I see the point up "upgrading" What I don't like is that it is harder to find new parts that are simple, shiny and work good with having to use their system or sti or ergo or whatever the marketing dept calls them. I know that there are still some nice new stuff out there. Thank you Velo Orange, but a clean rear derailleur that can be used for 5-8 sp is that asking too much. And a nice chrome/nickle freewheel that works so I can keep using my phil woods. Ok, thanks I will get off my soapbox.
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Old 02-10-14, 05:33 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
Can you adopt me? LOL
Sure, as long as I can claim you as a deduction on my 1040!
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Old 02-10-14, 05:44 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by bykrydr65 View Post
I was thinking the thing... I don't own a stock bike, probably cause I can't leave well enough alone. I admire basement finds that are original, and left that way. I see the point up "upgrading" What I don't like is that it is harder to find new parts that are simple, shiny and work good with < edit: Without > having to use their system or sti or ergo or whatever the marketing dept calls them. I know that there are still some nice new stuff out there. Thank you Velo Orange, but a clean rear derailleur that can be used for 5-8 sp is that asking too much. And a nice chrome/nickle freewheel that works so I can keep using my phil woods. Ok, thanks I will get off my soapbox.
That's why I will always ride Classic Lugged Steel, freewheels, and period-correct components. I'll NEVER have a bike newer than 1990 unless it fits those parameters. Classic. Timeless. The classic stuff is out there...

PS, got any extra Phils???
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Old 02-10-14, 05:57 PM
  #40  
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My Rivendell Custom actually has a Campy 10sp triple drivetrain, phil wood hubs, and bottom bracket, chris king headset and Paul's Racers brakes with Cane Creek levers. I even modified the Campy bar end shifters to be used as downtube shifters. I don't think Campy makes a 10sp down tube shifter. Anyway this was built in 2006. I love this bike and to my sons dismay I am going to be buried with it. (in an un
marked grave, so nobody can dig it up)
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Old 02-10-14, 06:00 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by JJScaliger View Post
Or putting granny gears on race bikes for that matter.
Hey, I use a big cog so I can keep up with you. Oh, wait, I still can't keep up with you. Never mind.
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Old 02-10-14, 06:02 PM
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I often think of old bikes and cars as a snapshot of the year they were made. It is interesting to see the, with their original parts and components, it clearly shows what technology was available at the time. I have an old road racer Bianchi with a 3 speed derailleur mech, with a shifter on the seat stay, then a later SL framed Atala with the first versions of Campy cable-operated derailleurs. The last is my 2000 Gios compact pro, which is equipped with the Campy Record kit of the time, with 9 speed carbon shifters, and red mavic helium wheels. I have put tens of thousands of kilometers on the Gios, and so far have been able to replace the various worn out parts with the original bits.

My old 63 beetle was much the same. I didn't upgrade it to a 12v system, though the 6v lights are really dim, and the only original radio is a single-speaker 6v AM type. Now the 6v starters and generators are getting scarce, but I still like the originality of it all, and think about the days when it was the world's best selling car (and wonder why).
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Old 02-10-14, 06:27 PM
  #43  
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I guess it depends on what you start with. I am the original owner of this bike and in both of its incarnations it started as the frame. The first time back in the '70s, it had a Campy crankset and other parts from a wrecked PX-10, including a Cinelli stem, Simplex plastic RD, and a Brooks B-17 saddle. Before it was stripped back down to the frame for some retouching with OEM paint, it had a Shimano 600 RD and Suntour barcons. All of the parts save the frame were stolen in a move from coast to coast.

The second time I thought briefly about restoring it with original parts that would have come on a 1973 P13-9 Paramount but I wanted to ride it in hilly terrain so that meant a triple. I need an anatomic saddle, so the Brooks was out. I wanted to try aero levers and as before wanted bar end shifters. Hey, indexing might be fun to try on a road bike, never had one with indexed shifting. There you go. Slippery slope. With 28mm Pasela TGs on it, it's a fun, capable ride and I love it. The next owner can restore it to some semblance of a 1973 Paramount.


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Old 02-10-14, 07:13 PM
  #44  
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Original parts or at least stylistically appropriate. Question: Do you care at all what your bike looks like? If so, then why? It's all a matter of perception and your own awareness.
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Old 02-10-14, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Sangetsu View Post
I often think of old bikes and cars as a snapshot of the year they were made. It is interesting to see the, with their original parts and components, it clearly shows what technology was available at the time. I have an old road racer Bianchi with a 3 speed derailleur mech, with a shifter on the seat stay, then a later SL framed Atala with the first versions of Campy cable-operated derailleurs. The last is my 2000 Gios compact pro, which is equipped with the Campy Record kit of the time, with 9 speed carbon shifters, and red mavic helium wheels. I have put tens of thousands of kilometers on the Gios, and so far have been able to replace the various worn out parts with the original bits.
That pretty much sums it for me. Most people on this forum have more than one bike. Instead of having the same thing again and again, I want to experience a different feel between the bikes. If all have the same upgrades, how is there a real difference? I've got a bike with a derailleur where you need your hand to move the chain, another with the first cable-operated Campagnolo and a modern 11-speed. Why would I ever modify the older 2 with upgrades? I have that with the modern bike.
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Old 02-10-14, 08:07 PM
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I guess I am torn. I have upgraded my 86 Schwinn Prelude to 700 C wheels and Sutour Superbe Pro shifting from 27 inch wheels and Suntour Cyclone shifting. However I am carefully storing the near mint parts to put back on the bike if I ever sell it. My Raleigh Grand Prix is all original with its beautiful mint gleaming steel wheels. I have a spare set of alloy wheels to put on it but I just can`t bring myself to do it. The Raleigh is my go slow bike anyway.
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Old 02-10-14, 08:28 PM
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All technology involves compromise: the tool allows the user to perform a task, but requires the user to adapt to the tool. As technology advances, it usually requires less of the user to achieve the same result. A new, high-end bike is all about efficient travel. Riding an old, unmodified bicycle is to appreciate the machine itself: its quirks and its place in history, as much as it is about getting from point to point.
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Old 02-10-14, 09:18 PM
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Or, the locus of adaptation is moved, e.g. from the user to the mechanic, or from the user's finesse at handling/maintaining the equipment to the user's wallet at paying for replacement parts or for an expert to do the maintenance.
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Old 02-10-14, 09:56 PM
  #49  
Salubrious
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When I am restoring vintage electronics I do my best to make it look as much like the original as possible. Otherwise it can really hurt the resale- often something like a Harmon Kardon Citation 2 might be worth more unrestored even it that means it doesn't work.

But for my own use I do what needs to be done. If its audio equipment I want to play it without worries it will blow up. If its a motorbike I want to be able to ride it reliably. So that means my Indian has a restored seat and a different headlight so I can see at night, plus the throttle on the right...

For bicycles if its something valuable and I am changing parts I put the original parts in a box labeled for that machine. If the parts are frammed then too bad. If the bike is older but not particularly valuable, I have less fears about doing mods. When I am done with my Schwinn Sports Tourer (fillet brazed) I am sure there will be objections, but I wanted to see what I could do with it since they usually don't go for all that much. I find the ride and the gear range charming, but that has to be one of Campy's worst derailers on the rear! It took me three years to find a Schwinn Le Tour (Shimano) derailer in good condition. I'd seen them for $140.00 on ebay but one turned up in perfect shape for $10 at the swap meet this last weekend. The kickstand is gone, and I'm not sure if I will keep the shifters up on the stem. That sort of stuff...

I'm of the opinion this stuff is supposed to be fun...
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Old 02-10-14, 10:05 PM
  #50  
SHBR
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
Question: Do you care at all what your bike looks like? If so, then why? It's all a matter of perception and your own awareness.
This whole thread is a first world problem.

I say function is more important than style.

Style is subjective, open to interpretation, and manipulation.

Most people have more important issues to worry about.
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