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What's the obsession of keep parts original?

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What's the obsession of keep parts original?

Old 02-09-14, 11:03 PM
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look171
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What's the obsession of keep parts original?

when I was really into riding back in the mid 80s all the way to the mid 90s, I just bought what works and worked best for racing. We did not buy the whole bike, never. They just weren't available as a whole bike plus, it was all campy SR anyway until the mid 90s. We crash a frame, buy a new one and transfer the parts over to the new one. Index shifting came out, I put on Campy and that was the biggest mistake. It just did not worked. So DA 8 spd went on my frame at the time. 8 spd lasted a few years until 9 spd came out. So 9 spd it was on my look carbon. No original parts but so what? A guy caught up to me today at the light. I was riding my Torelli carbon/alum. bike with 9 spd. He said the parts should be older then that, pity for suck a nice classic bike. light changed and he was all over road trying to clip in. can't ride but worry about epuip?
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Old 02-09-14, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by look171 View Post
...can't ride but worry about epuip?
Often I have seen people get so worked up over weight or equipment that they can't enjoy what they have...

Fat guy down the street rides his old Huffy almost every day... Bravo...

(Odd but now that I think about it - All his parts are probably original...)
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Old 02-09-14, 11:39 PM
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New bikes seem to welcome upgrades, but older bikes take on special charm as they become decades old, so any upgrades detract from that.

Also, for many riders, the only thing going for their original old bike is that it is all original. They'd rather be riding a modern bike.

But for the discerning riders who fine tune the fit and mechanicals of their old bikes, they'd probably prefer to ride their old ones, just as they are/were.
I do take the liberty of upgrading consumable or "fitting" items like chain, possibly saddle and bars/stem, cabling, bar wrap and perhaps the freewheel.
If it's a gas-pipe bike, then the seatpost and rims are additionally ripe for replacement.
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Old 02-10-14, 12:19 AM
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Should have thanked him for the 'raciest' comment

On a similar thought, I sometimes ski downhill on vintage 1950's woodies with steel edges. What I did is mount mishmash 1990's free heel bindings with safety release and leather hard shell boots complete the ensemble. The range of comments by others amuse me. Once in awhile as getting off the lift I'll give a good run on some droopy pants snowboarder. Knowing most of them avoid the moguls, I won't either while on woodies, but I can surely let them rip.
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Old 02-10-14, 12:44 AM
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Its like classic cars. You would want to maintain as much as originality with a 69 Boss 302 Mustang as possible but a 69 plain jane Mustang coupe with a 6 cylinder? I say go ahead and change the engine and customize it.

If I had a classic high end bike that is worth real money with original parts, I would leave it. However if you have a plane jane yet nice classic bike, customize it. I have a 85 Trek 520 that is fully equipped with a complete 9 speed 105 drive train off of a modern 9 speed bike, STI shifters and all. I love that Trek with that drivetrain. If it had the stock 7 or 6 speed setup with downtube shifters? I probably wouldn't love it, I hate down tube shifters. But its not a Big Deal bike and I don't think the lack of original parts hurts the value of it.
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Old 02-10-14, 12:57 AM
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I don't really see the need to keep C&V bikes as original (component-wise) as possible to how they were when first sold, as most riders usually put their personal touches on a bike as soon as they get them home, to make them work or look as best as their preferences require. Just like my Peugeot PSV that had been a continuous modding up project since I got it new in 1984.
Heck, the only thing original left on it is the frameset, headset and seatpost. If anything, I only like to keep mods "period correct" with period correct components, as much as possible or practical. My other bike builds were originally sold as frameset, so I had a free hand on what component groups to put on them. And those were the most enjoyable of my C&V projects!
I do have to admit that I did try to keep as much of the original equipment on my 1972 Line Seeker when I restored it a year and a half ago, as I think the components it came with originally were installed on the bike for either design development or for bike shows in the early 70's. I also did so because I think the bike is very rare and historically significant. which I think is a pretty good reason to keep a bike original, component-wise.
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Old 02-10-14, 04:35 AM
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I have the '85 Trek 460 that I acquired 10yrs ago and keep it mostly intact. I swapped out the black ano wheel and brake sets for classy polished alloy parts that lend to a more classic racing bike look. The whole setup is ready to return to showroom stock anyday.

Some bikes are distinct and more easily identified by their equippe due to the preserving on online brochures. I for one appreciate that.
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Old 02-10-14, 05:12 AM
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look171, If one is attempting a restoration, originality counts. Others may desire to be period correct. Yet again others may simply want a nice old bike to be road worthy again and anything goes.

Brad
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Old 02-10-14, 06:29 AM
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The "old frames with STI and Ergo" is up to page 143 now. That guy has a lot of work to do if he wants to fix all of us.
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Old 02-10-14, 07:09 AM
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Yes. You can "upgrade".

Or.

No. You don't "upgrade".

Your choice, its a free country. But there is no need to get your knickers in a bunch if you do or don't do one or the other.
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Old 02-10-14, 08:17 AM
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It's a matter of decorum.

Ride what you want, but I'm not going to high five someone or give them a pat on the back for cold setting a Grandis or Masi so they can install gargoyle 11 speed ergo. Or putting granny gears on race bikes for that matter.
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Old 02-10-14, 08:35 AM
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Obsession? Is this the pejorative Word of the Week?

Just to make one feel better here's pics of a mongrelized '74 town bike, a '77 FG conversion and a '92 converted to 10spd drivetrain.
Mental health through modification or the inability to leave well enough alone?

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Old 02-10-14, 08:37 AM
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When buying an old bike, I prefer one that hasn't been messed with. If it has all original parts, I can be pretty sure that's the case. That's worth a premium, but it's not an obsession.

When a "bike" becomes a "vintage bike" I think it gets some credibility from still consisting of parts of the original vintage. There's nothing wrong with upgrades at this point, but they don't necessarily add anything to its value. If the bike is for riding, and they add to its utility, that's another matter entirely.
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Old 02-10-14, 08:52 AM
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I think that it's ok to modify a vintage rider how ever you want. I personally will make upgrades to make the bike more comfortable or to better the shifting/braking/gearing. When I do so, my personal taste requires that the parts be as period correct as possible. Most collectors like the aesthetic of vintage bikes, and new parts destroy that for them.
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Old 02-10-14, 09:33 AM
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If something is historic- it shouldn't be messed with.

If something is really clean and relatively rare- it's best to mess with it as little as possible.

If something is really clean and not so much rare- don't mess with it irreversibly.

If something has been messed with already, you have a lot of leeway to work with.

I take the "don't mess with it irreversibly" thing for most things that are "vintage." I try to always save parts and keep it so it can be brought back to stock.

My Voyageur SP is a relatively rare bike- it was barely ridden, but the bars were bent in shipping. I'm replacing stem, bars, cables, brakes, shifters and RD. I'm keeping everything except the old bar tape.

My Trek 720 is a relatively rare bike, but has been ridden hard and has had a bunch of parts missing. I'm going to replace the things that are worn, the pieces that were switched out for replacement stuff I don't like, possibly the RD.

The funny thing is, I view new stuff as fair game to eff with, regardless of how fancy or whatever.
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Old 02-10-14, 10:03 AM
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Bikes for riding and bikes for collecting and preserving are two different things. My daily rider (1981 Lotus Odyssey) has been modified for comfort and practicality. But, the bikes I collect I want as original as possible.

Completely original and stock Lotus bikes are extremely rare, even the common models. I'd venture a guess that maybe 1 in 1000+ are completely original. To me, that make an original bike more desirable because it's so rare. I want the bike exactly as Lotus designed it and I want it to match the catalog photos and specifications and I want all the parts and accessories that came with the bike. That's what serious collectors do.

It's a lot easier to pick out a new part from a catalog or the spare parts bin and add it to your vintage bike than it is to find the exact original component, with the correct finish and production codes. I've been searching for the correct parts to restore my 1983 Lotus Legend Compe for over 3 years. If I could just add new parts or any old parts from the parts bin I'd be done by now, that would be easy, anyone can do that. Because it can be so difficult to correctly restore a bike to original, that's part of what makes all-original bikes more appealing to me and why I appreciate them so much more than a customized or modified bike.

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Old 02-10-14, 10:31 AM
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The pressure to keep it original is the expectation that there will be some Concours show at some point and that for that and to be true to history the bicycle be kept as originally created.
Vintage Kool-Aid.
There is no Pebble Beach for vintage bicycles.
So, either do it for yourself or just look at others and admire and laugh.

This obsession word is quite popular of late.
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Old 02-10-14, 10:34 AM
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I always use the "fitness for purpose" rule when making these decisions. If your goal is to create a unique, original restoration for collection purposes only, then you need to be concerned with original parts. Otherwise not. Most of the time I'm in the otherwise category, so I pick what works best. I see car restorations that make this mistake all the time - the mistake being obsession for a correct, non repop part when they either have no intention of creating and selling a true original, or they think its going to be worth 6 figures when they are done only to discover they might be lucky to get $40,000 for a mostly original 65 GTO. They would have been better off making the car drive-able by installing electronic ignition and putting in a modern tranny - because driving it on nice days is all they will be doing anyway.
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Old 02-10-14, 10:49 AM
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I bought my Fuji new in '76, and had a few things changed before it even left the shop. So much for originality. In the intervening 38 years and 45,000+ miles, I've replaced just about every component at least once. Some due to breakage, some due to wear, and some due to personal preference. I'm on its third or fourth wheelset, second rear derailleur, untold chains... shifters were replaced with barcons because I happen to like them. etc, etc, etc.

The nearly original Univega I picked up last years is getting some things changed as well. I 'upgraded' the derailleurs, replaced freewheel, shifters, seatpost, brake levers...

I'm an individual, and so are my bikes!
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Old 02-10-14, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ldmataya View Post
I always use the "fitness for purpose" rule when making these decisions. If your goal is to create a unique, original restoration for collection purposes only, then you need to be concerned with original parts. Otherwise not. Most of the time I'm in the otherwise category, so I pick what works best. I see car restorations that make this mistake all the time - the mistake being obsession for a correct, non repop part when they either have no intention of creating and selling a true original, or they think its going to be worth 6 figures when they are done only to discover they might be lucky to get $40,000 for a mostly original 65 GTO. They would have been better off making the car drive-able by installing electronic ignition and putting in a modern tranny - because driving it on nice days is all they will be doing anyway.
There are a lot of six figure car investments with five figures when the restoration is done. I see it all the time.
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Old 02-10-14, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
There are a lot of six figure car investments with five figures when the restoration is done. I see it all the time.
My boss at the body/restoration shop where I worked had an expression he used quite frequently,

"The easiest way to make your classic car worth 50 grand . . . is to spend 100 grand restoring it."
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Old 02-10-14, 11:26 AM
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Old 02-10-14, 11:51 AM
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I am vintage, I doubt anyone would say classic! I like some of my bikes to be period correct for my vintage alignment, what I like back then. It brings back memories that I enjoy. Accessories can vary. Some bikes are procured as franken bikes and stay that way. There is one that I am thinking of trying to go period correct based on the Cat but as everyone knows, it is unjustifiably expensive to build a bike than to buy one.

Then there is the "Drewed" Trek frame. It becomes, not a Franken bike, but one step better as a PaTrek bike! If it is a "keep", all bets are off. I don't like the idea of spreading frames either. The vintage side of me says 10, 12 or 14 gears is enough.
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Old 02-10-14, 11:56 AM
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When I think that a model/year of a particular brand would make a good candidate for an Ergoshift conversion, I find it easier to do if I can find a bike that has already had the particular original parts replaced with newer parts.
So it can come down to applying opportunism you could say.
Of course you can always set original parts aside for reinstallation later, but perhaps better to find a bike that's been fettered with already?

Such was the case with this ~1974/75 Peugeot PX10LE, where a previous owner had installed a tall shorty stem with Japanese bars, brake levers and stem shifters. EEK!
I thought the parts I later added were appropriate, since I needed a longer, stronger stem and wider bars to steady this bike's extremely twitchy geometry (North of 75 degrees HT & ST).

The bike's "slammed" saddle was also not original so I put on a Bianchi/Avocet-branded Turbo.

Later, I custom-built a 124mm-wide rear wheel hub/axle to take a modern, ramped 7sp freewheel, which I felt was essential to work safely using Ergo levers. The 121mm frame accepts this wheel easily without use of force or cold-setting.

Picture shows earlier use of the Shimano derailer the bike came with, and a 5-speed freewheel. The 8s Ergoshifter indexed this setup perfectly using the "hubbub" cable attachment trick.



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Old 02-10-14, 11:57 AM
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Am I the only one who thinks it was rather rude of the other biker to roll up beside a stranger (the OP) and make negative comments about his bike? What's with that?
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