KenNC

Okay, I have a 1981 Peugeot frame out for powdercoating in silver metallic (that will be two coats, including a clear powdercoat). My plan after I get it back is to "wet" apply some repro vinyl decals, wait at least a week, then acrylic clear-coat (Dupli-color) in light coats over decals, then wait some more, then polish with Meguiar's, and then apply a couple of coats of "Liquid Glass" auto finish. The fork was all chrome under the half-paint so i stripped that, will skip the powdercoat and go straight to decals and clear coat, etc. All of this is a first for me so I thought I'd put the sequence up here and check for any suggestions. Thank you!

repechage

Ask the powdercoater about a top coat. He will think you are crazy but may understand due to the graphics. Might even suggest forgo the clear powdercoat layer.
If that is the case, I would be looking for a two part clear over the silver and graphics.

The Duplicolor over the chrome... I do not think you will get a durable bond. My guess would be apply the graphics and just keep it clean and waxed.

RobbieTunes

+1
a-Even professional coatings on chrome come off eventually. Polish the chrome wax/protect and leave it.
b-The base powder coat is enough. I would not use a powder clear, especially over decals.
c-Lightly wet sand the powder coat, apply decals, then shoot your clear.

Frenchosa

Is that all the powdercoat or just the under the decal? I have a frame that I will get powdercoated....

CustomSteel

All, the clearcoat needs something to grab onto.

RobbieTunes

The color can be powder-coated, and then regular clear over the decals.

If you do a powder clear over the base powder, you will blur the lugs a bit, and the decals will appear to "float" on the frame. This could be a desired effect, not sure.
Then, when you clear over the decals, you may get a very subtle color change, probably not a factor. The finish will appear thick.

If you do a powder base, then decals, and powder clear, you run the risk of heating the decals and damaging them. If a hot air hair dryer will soften and remove a lot of them, are you sure you want to bake them?

If you do a base powder, then wet-sand and apply decals, and then "regular" clear, you'll blend the decals into the frame surface and seal them with the shots of regular clear.

sloar 

if it were mine, i would powdercoat,then get the high gloss decals from velocals, they are a uv protected decals made for finished frames. powder coating is very durable, the clear is not. you can always replace the decals if its on top of the pc.

GordoTrek

+1, Velocals are really durable... just be patient when ordering... i have a frame that i pc'd and just slapped decals on it..looks great


ignore the gnarled shifter cable

Grand Bois

Powdercoat is plastic. Paint does not adhere well to plastic. I predict that clear sprayed over powdercoat will peel at some point in the future.

ldmataya

++1 Velocals with the high gloss on a good powdercoat look seamless, especially if the powder is a darker color.

KenNC

Glad I asked, lots of good points! This may be one of those situations where skipping a step leads to a better result. Will DEFINITELY skip clear coating the chrome, and am now leaning towards just applying the decals to the clear coat, wax, and call it a day--though still considering the wet-sand approach from RobbieTunes.

Duane Behrens

To confirm, Velocals strongly recommends AGAINST applying any additional clear-coat (or finish of any kind) to their UV resistant decals. Just put them on, wet or dry (dry if you're brave and steady), and you're done. DB

Grand Bois

You don't buy UV resistant decals if you plan to clear coat.

RobbieTunes

My recommendation was based on my assumption that Ken really wanted C/C over the decals.
I, too, use the Velocals over powdercoat and don't see the need for clearcoat.

On painted frames, I pay (through the nose) for the entire job, blast, sand, prime, paint, wet-sand, decal placment, clear coat(s). My painter takes 4-5 months and charges $450, single color, and you'd better have the decals when he's ready for them, or it will be 2-3 more months. The fork is $100 extra.

sloar 

why 5 months to paint a bike robbie? is he swamped with work? i can see the cost, paint is crazy expensive, but that is a long wait time.

Duane Behrens

That's correct; instead you buy non-UV resistant and then let them fade in the sun, with or without clear-coat. No brainer. Duh.

Duane Behrens

Hmm. You may want to explore the services of a different painter. The attached photo shows a bike that was completely sand-blasted, then powder-coated - frame AND fork - for $150. I installed the decals myself.

Grand Bois

I'd expect a response like that from a pre-teen.

The non UV resistant decals are thinner and the UV resistance is built into the clear coat. It also protects the base coat from fading. At least that's how it worked the last tme I painted a bike.

sloar 

I apply non uv decals under clear. Never had any fade.

Duane Behrens

Didn't know that. Thanks, Dad.

Wulf

The automotive paint store I use has a 2 part clear in a rattlecan. There is a valve you release to mix the 2 parts and it has a shelf life of a few hours.

ultraman6970

Yes you can do what you want to do, but I would not even bother using duplicolor, you have to do it with car polyurethane clear coat.

1 - Sand the powder coating surface with 600 or 800 grit wet sand paper. Just scuff the whole frame surface to etch it or the clear wont have anything to grip on.

2 - apply the decals.

3 - apply car polyurethane clear coat.

4 - Advising you to use car polyurethane clear coat, if you want to use something else is your problem.

5 - good luck.

Grand Bois

Scuffing the surface will help, but you're still applying paint to plastic without primer and it's only a matter of time before it peels.

neo_pop_71

Hey KenNC,
Most of what you stated as your plan would certainly do the job but I have issue with a few points....
1. I avoid clear powdercoats, it will never give that deep rich paint look that quality auto enamel will.
2. Acrylic clear coats like Dupli-color have lousy durability as a top coat over powdercoating. I've never seen a job last more than a couple years.
3. Avoid any chemical finishes and avoid even washing the top coat for the first 2-3 weeks as the clear top coat can fog as it's curing.

ultraman6970 is spot on, this is the exact process I use every single time after I receive the frame back from the powdercoater.
*** I do have a suggestion that I've found works better than the wet sand paper, ask your painter for a sheet or two of KOVAX Assilex finishing cloth. It's a soft cloth with an ultra fine abrasive on one side, closest thing I can compare it with is shark skin. I used to use 800 grit wet sand paper and water but this is much simpler, just lightly rub the powdercoat and you're left with the perfect surface for wet or dry decals adhesion and your final clear top coat. Pay close attention to the lugs, the powdercoat is thinnest there and it's easy to rub through to bare metal. After you've rubbed the frame with Assilex cloth, you want to give the frame a good dust off and a wipe down with a damp cloth. The benefit of abrasive cloth and not using wet dry sandpaper is no water which means no waiting half a day to a full day for your newly porous powdercoat to completely dry so you can apply your decals. Any good painter should have Assilex cloth but it can be bought on Ebay as well a better painting supply stores.

Well, I don't agree with Grand Bois on his point, any surface whether it's paint or powdercoat is subject to peeling if the under surface is not prepared properly. Taking a frame down to bare metal and then powdercoating has served my restoration purposes very well and I've yet to have a single issue. The oldest frame I have using this process is a Bianchi I did in 1996. The original black was shot, I had the frame media blasted and powdercoated white. I used 800 grit wet sandpaper to prep the surface and I applied a purple set of factory decals ordered by my LBS from Bianchi in Italy. Once left for a few days for the decals to fully cure I had my painter, the same one I still use, spray the frame with automotive clear. The frame's finish and decals still look great after almost 20 years! I believe this is a wonderful restoration finish for a budget minded person who does not wish to spend $500 restoring a frame.

p.s. I've attached a couple of my bikes that I've used powdercoat/decals/clear coat process

ultraman6970

I think grand bois is talking about plastic, plastic and carbon fiber surfaces are really tricky to paint because of the preparation, a primer that works in metal probably it wont work in plastic or carbon fiber. In generally speaking you paint over bare metal, since the surface is already etched using sandblast as long as the surface is clean the powder coating and even electrostatic paint systems will work really well, the issue is the clear coat, from what I have noticed powder coating clears arent even close to polyurethane ones.

In plastic you have to use special primers and then go with some acrylic primer that is inert to anything below and anything you are going to put over the top (the color), in chrome well that one is tricky because you have to sand it a lot to etch it, if that is done right you have use some self etch primer to help the cause and then a regular primer and then the color or just go straight to the color, everything is the preparation of the surface.

Thanks in the tip about that shark skin cloth, gonna check it out