Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

So Cal Raleigh Mk IV's

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

So Cal Raleigh Mk IV's

Old 03-06-14, 09:33 AM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
So Cal Raleigh Mk IV's

I am still trying to determine the correct color for a re-paint (blue mink). A local body shop was kind enough to loan me some paint chips and I am hoping to match them to an original example. I am willing to travel just about anywhere in Southern California to do so. Is there anyone out there who can help? If someone else has already done this (matching an automotive color to the Raleigh's color) I would be most appreciative to hear from them.

Thank you
shopco43 is offline  
Old 03-08-14, 08:02 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,193

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked 1,083 Times in 410 Posts
Originally Posted by shopco43
A local body shop was kind enough to loan me some paint chips and I am hoping to match them to an original example.
Did you get any offers to inspect and original Mk IV? Several of us are looking for the info - either a auto model/year or the actual paint mix formula. The closest I got was with some PPG chips at the lighter end of the blue/green spectrum. BUT I only have some poor overspray on the ST so my results are not conclusive.
Prowler is offline  
Old 03-08-14, 08:48 AM
  #3  
If I own it, I ride it
 
CV-6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,585

Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 593 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 663 Times in 312 Posts
Another candidate is an Austin Healey color. I remember reading a specific reference to it but cannot find it. However I did find this photo.

EDIT: Found it. A post by Peter Kohler in the TI/Team Raleigh group.

Off topic to be sure (and a reminder there is a Yahoo group devoted specifically to the Raleigh/Carlton Pros... but I'd be surprised this was a custom mix paint. I always thought Raleigh Professional mink blue was Austin Healey Ice Blue Metallic.


Peter Kohler


And a bit more digging yielded an ICI color code of 2301m. And a bit more digging revealed that ICI is now owned by PPG. Hope this helps.

__________________
Please do not "like" my posts. This isn't Facebook.

Lynn Travers

Photos


Last edited by CV-6; 03-08-14 at 09:01 AM.
CV-6 is offline  
Old 03-08-14, 09:47 AM
  #4  
Photographer
 
ScottRyder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: The other Cape, Cape Ann
Posts: 3,117
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked 98 Times in 53 Posts
Interesting, I have a friend who I think has an Austin, when I first saw it I remember thinking how the color reminded me of my Raleigh Pro. I'll investigate, perhaps bring my Pro over for comparison.

Scott
__________________
ClassicFuji.posthaven.com.archive

IG @scottryder.surf.cycle
IG @scottryder.fine.art
























ScottRyder is offline  
Old 03-08-14, 12:26 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
delicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: berkeley
Posts: 1,778
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by CV-6
Another candidate is an Austin Healey color. I remember reading a specific reference to it but cannot find it. However I did find this photo.

EDIT: Found it. A post by Peter Kohler in the TI/Team Raleigh group.

Off topic to be sure (and a reminder there is a Yahoo group devoted specifically to the Raleigh/Carlton Pros... but I'd be surprised this was a custom mix paint. I always thought Raleigh Professional mink blue was Austin Healey Ice Blue Metallic.


Peter Kohler


And a bit more digging yielded an ICI color code of 2301m. And a bit more digging revealed that ICI is now owned by PPG. Hope this helps.

Hard to tell from a picture of course, but that looks very similar to my MkIV's paint.
delicious is offline  
Old 03-08-14, 12:28 PM
  #6  
If I own it, I ride it
 
CV-6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,585

Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 593 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 663 Times in 312 Posts
Originally Posted by delicious
Hard to tell from a picture of course, but that looks very similar to my MkIV's paint.
Indeed. Every monitor displays a little different and who knows if the original got tweaked. And for that matter do we know for sure the color on the car is same as the color from the factory.
__________________
Please do not "like" my posts. This isn't Facebook.

Lynn Travers

Photos

CV-6 is offline  
Old 03-08-14, 01:50 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,306
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,835 Times in 1,999 Posts
Originally Posted by CV-6
Indeed. Every monitor displays a little different and who knows if the original got tweaked. And for that matter do we know for sure the color on the car is same as the color from the factory.
So right. Also, the camera may not pick up the color correctly. The original concept of looking for an example to match to is a sound one. Many color chart pages from the paint suppliers have an oval shaped cutout in the middle of the sample to place the sample over the "match to" color.

And if I had an original color bike at hand I would remove a top tube cable clip or other clamp to peak under and see if the color had faded… plenty of paint from the time fades with UV exposure…

Of course, on a Raleigh Pro there are two colors to match… There are plenty of silver variations out there!
repechage is offline  
Old 03-08-14, 02:05 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Kactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,520

Bikes: 1962 Schwinn Paramount P12, 1971 Schwinn Paramount P13-9

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 20 Posts
That Healy looks more like the Steel Blue on a Mk V to me.
Kactus is offline  
Old 03-08-14, 07:08 PM
  #9  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
No; no luck yet. I went to the bi-monthly swap meet in Whittier this morning but didn't find anything there. The San Diego spring swap meet is April 6th and I will try there if I do not hear sooner. I have thought of joining the Raleigh Yahoo group but I am hesitant for some reason. I had not thought of the fading issue! As far as the silver is concerned I found a jar of Testor's model paint called "steel" that was a perfect match. The problem is I am only "pretty" sure my memory is correct. Next I will try tracking down bike shops that like the vintage stuff and see if there is any help there. The research is a part of the process (you've got to love the journey).

I will post any news of my progress. Also, the location of the silver color bands on the seat tube has been solved. I found a photo I took of the frame while I had it on the surface plate (measuring it).
shopco43 is offline  
Old 03-08-14, 08:07 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
JTTDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Playa Larga
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shopco43
I am still trying to determine the correct color for a re-paint (blue mink). A local body shop was kind enough to loan me some paint chips and I am hoping to match them to an original example. I am willing to travel just about anywhere in Southern California to do so. Is there anyone out there who can help? If someone else has already done this (matching an automotive color to the Raleigh's color) I would be most appreciative to hear from them.
Thank you
Hey Shopco I was just this afternoon admiring a blue mink and silver 1974 Raleigh Pro owned by a young man who works in a local liquor store here in Long Beach near the border with Seal Beach. I had noticed the bike before, locked in the same place daily with a cheap cable lock and so wanted to advise him to bring it inside or get a better lock. I talked to him about buying it, mostly Campy Nuovo Record except for Suntour Bar Cons, but ultimately decided its a little too small for me. He had no idea what he had, it was gifted him by a friend who he says found it at the side of the road. I would be willing to get you in touch with him if you like, but I am not sure how you and I make contact since neither of us has enough posts to pm the other!
JTTDF is offline  
Old 03-08-14, 09:13 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
JTTDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Playa Larga
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Prowler, I got your pm but wasn't allowed to reply. I sent an email through the form provided. Not sure if it went through. Let me know and thanks for your help!
JTTDF is offline  
Old 03-09-14, 05:25 AM
  #12  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Yea buddy! You could just call me at 951-354-8626. My name is Bruce and I am looking forward to hearing from you. Today is Sunday; perfect for a drive to Seal Beach. Thank you.
shopco43 is offline  
Old 03-09-14, 05:30 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,193

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked 1,083 Times in 410 Posts
Go for it guys. Please let us know what you find.
Prowler is offline  
Old 03-09-14, 07:15 AM
  #14  
Photographer
 
ScottRyder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: The other Cape, Cape Ann
Posts: 3,117
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked 98 Times in 53 Posts
Prowler, you're on my to-do list today .. I got out for a ride yesterday and snapped a few new ones:





Mine's is a 61cm. I'll be measuring the stripe placement from the bottom of the seat tube lug, right above the Reynolds decal. As you can see, my stripes are painted rather than decals. roughly painted, very.

Scott
__________________
ClassicFuji.posthaven.com.archive

IG @scottryder.surf.cycle
IG @scottryder.fine.art
























ScottRyder is offline  
Old 03-09-14, 07:49 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,193

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked 1,083 Times in 410 Posts
Thanks Scott. I'll bet the stripes are all the same but centered based on the length of the ST, c-c on the BB and seat cluster lugs. Can anyone else measure theirs, we sure could use the data.

Also I'm glad to see the band striping - looks just like mine. Not very well done but surely hand painted. My seat cluster is not striped but my HT lug striping looks like yours - hand done and not too smooth. And not very gold anymore. I wonder if the paint was not very good back then. I have a 1980 Nishiki (only 4 years newer) with gold lug lining and it looks like new. Curious. The OP will sure benefit from all this info too.

BTW: what are those odd spaceship chromey things blocking our view of your tires**********

BTW: We're real intrigued about comparing the Pro to a Ice Blue Met Austin Healey. Real potential there.
Prowler is offline  
Old 03-09-14, 08:06 AM
  #16  
Photographer
 
ScottRyder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: The other Cape, Cape Ann
Posts: 3,117
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked 98 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by Prowler
BTW: what are those odd spaceship chromey things blocking our view of your tires**********

BTW: We're real intrigued about comparing the Pro to a Ice Blue Met Austin Healey. Real potential there.
ha I get that all the time .. fenders on a Pro? hey, it came that way ..

Yes, I'm going to call my Austin friend tomorrow, he's a company vender and I don't have his number here at home.

Scott
__________________
ClassicFuji.posthaven.com.archive

IG @scottryder.surf.cycle
IG @scottryder.fine.art
























ScottRyder is offline  
Old 03-09-14, 09:07 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
JTTDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Playa Larga
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shopco43
Yea buddy! You could just call me at 951-354-8626. My name is Bruce and I am looking forward to hearing from you. Today is Sunday; perfect for a drive to Seal Beach. Thank you.
Hey Bruce, I gotta teach a spin class (I do a lot of my riding without going anywhere) this morning. I'll stop by the Bev Mo about ten or eleven and see if he is working today and call you then. Yesterday he was just getting in to work about three pm when he and I talked. I'm Paul and I am at 562-810-9730. Talk to you later!
JTTDF is offline  
Old 03-09-14, 11:02 AM
  #18  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
I measured the silver banding on the photograph of my Mk IV using a high quality dial caliper. My measurements were taken from lowest point on the seat lug (where the seat stays connect), along the rear of the seat tube to the top of the bottom lug (that is part of the bottom bracket shell). The dial caliper reads to the thousandth of an inch and I recorded the measurements that way even though there was some uncertainty. After I recorded the individual measurements (of the band widths and the spaces between them) I measured the total length between the lugs (on the photograph) and my measurements checked-in with the added-up individual measurements to within a couple thousandths, so I have a high level of confidence that my measurements from the photograph are accurate. Interestingly, the 4 narrower bands (which you would think would all be the same width) got slightly larger as I moved down the seat tube. I think they were the same and the apparent difference on the photograph is due to one end of the seat tube being closer to the focal plane of the camera. I will average these four measurements when I paint my bicycle, although here they are recorded as I measured them.

What I am listing here are my measurements converted to the real world numbers. I did this by taking a corresponding measurement (between the lugs) from the actual bicycle.


The color bands are not centered on the seat tube. The top silver band bisects the Reynolds decal on my bike and there is a larger space at the bottom of the bands. My guess is that all the bands are the same from the top of the top band to the bottom of the bottom band. I would post a picture but I don’t know how.


Bottom of seat lug to Top of Band No.1: 11/32
Band No.1: 1 – 15/32
Space: 49/64
Band No.2: 1 – 31/64
Space: 51/64
Band No.3: 4 – 15/32
Space: 51/64
Band No.4: 1 – 35/64
Space: 51/64
Band No.5: 1 – 9/16
Space to Top of Bottom Lug: 3 – 5/32
Total Distance Between Lugs: 17 – 1/4
shopco43 is offline  
Old 03-09-14, 11:28 AM
  #19  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Trying to post a picture. I'll keep trying! On my computer you can click on the image and it will get big. Does that work for everyone?

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
DSC_0616.jpg (81.1 KB, 95 views)

Last edited by shopco43; 03-09-14 at 11:34 AM. Reason: added statement
shopco43 is offline  
Old 03-09-14, 04:09 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,193

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked 1,083 Times in 410 Posts
Good to have the data, Thank You, though I suppose you used the 'murican scale (vs metric) since that's what your caliper read out. I'll post my measurements too but, since my was repainted somewhere, I cannot ensure that my measurements are correct. This info along with Scott's will help a lot.

Please remind us of what your seat tube measurement is c-c (from the center of the bottom bracket to the top tube center). Someone pointed out that the banding could be scaled according to the frame size or maybe not. We'll see.

now to convert your King Henry VIII scale to metric.........

HEY, can any other Pro Mk IV owners join in. We all could use more info.
Prowler is offline  
Old 03-09-14, 07:11 PM
  #21  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
I measured (very carefully) ctr. to top of top @ 21.234” = 53.93 cm so I’m sure it is a 54 cm. The 21½” from Raleigh’s literature is no doubt a nod to the American market. The color band measurements in centimeters is as follows:

The 4 smaller bands: 1.52” - 3.85 cm

The central large band: 4.54” - 11.53 cm
The space between the bands: 0.78” - 1.99 cm

Looking at ScottRyder’s photos(I love the way that bike is set up) I see that the spaces between the bands are larger in relation to the bands than mine. Also the entire set of bands is situated lower on the seat tube than is mine. I am not going to paint mine the way they were originally because I don’t like the band cutting through the 531 decal. I’ll keep the size and spacing the same but will center the set between the derailleur clamp and the 531 decal. I am coming to the opinion that as long as you get these things close (including the color) anyone would be hard pressed to call you a liar. I’ll bet there was that much variation from the factory, at least by ’73 anyway. Of course I could be wrong.
shopco43 is offline  
Old 03-10-14, 04:28 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,193

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked 1,083 Times in 410 Posts
Originally Posted by shopco43
My measurements were taken from lowest point on the seat lug (where the seat stays connect), along the rear of the seat tube to the top of the bottom lug (that is part of the bottom bracket shell).
shopco, please clarify: you've said you measured along the rear of the ST which, to me, means that side of the tube that looks back at the rear triangle and the dropouts. Is that what you meant? The photo you provided shows the front of the ST (that side that can see the HT and the forks) more clearly and would be easier to measure. I'm curious because I've measured along the front of my ST - more open and easier to see the defined edge of the lugs.
Prowler is offline  
Old 03-10-14, 08:10 AM
  #23  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Yes; I measured along the rear of the seat tube. On the photograph I felt I had a more definitive profile on the lugs. It did not matter when measuring the photo as long as the conversion was “apples to apples”. When transferring the measurements to the bike I will probably do as you say and measure along the front of the tube. In rereading your post I see you ask for the ctr. to ctr. frame measurement and I gave you the ctr. to top. I guess you could subtract half an inch (or1.27 cm) although I always thought ctr. to top was the more traditional measurement.
shopco43 is offline  
Old 03-10-14, 11:27 AM
  #24  
Photographer
 
ScottRyder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: The other Cape, Cape Ann
Posts: 3,117
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked 98 Times in 53 Posts
A little update .. my friend Tom, who owns the '67 Healy, just called and flooded me with a lot of information .. His paint isn't original and when had it re-painted it was very difficult to find an accurate match! He explained that it was due to inconsistencies in the different paints year to year. Evidently quality control was an issue. Now Tom knows a thing or two about vintage bikes .. when I explained why I was asking about the paint color, he laughed and said Raleigh had worse quality control with their paint .. His words, not mine. He invited me over to do a comparison of the Pro and his car, in the chance they might match. If so, he does have the paint formula.

I'll post some photos ..

Scott

FYI https://www.ahexp.com/article/bmc-paint.html
__________________
ClassicFuji.posthaven.com.archive

IG @scottryder.surf.cycle
IG @scottryder.fine.art

























Last edited by ScottRyder; 03-10-14 at 11:30 AM. Reason: added link
ScottRyder is offline  
Old 03-10-14, 11:32 AM
  #25  
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,464

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3133 Post(s)
Liked 2,115 Times in 1,378 Posts
Mink are blue?
Darth Lefty is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.