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Ebay 6 Day Bike

Old 04-09-14, 05:26 AM
  #1  
oldy57
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Ebay 6 Day Bike

Vintage 1929 Stainless Steel Hand Made 6 Day Race Wooden Rim Bicycle | eBay
I have been watching this bike on Ebay, second time it was listed. Any idea what it is worth?. Memorabilia is cool.
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Old 04-09-14, 05:52 AM
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That is very cool stuff...price "seems" reasonable...to the right collector, of course!
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Old 04-09-14, 06:01 AM
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Not my size. Otherwise, that floats my boat.
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Old 04-09-14, 06:09 AM
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I can definitely see the attraction. Good luck if you go after it.
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Old 04-09-14, 06:13 AM
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Very cool collection and bike.
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Old 04-09-14, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
Not my size. Otherwise, that floats my boat.
Yes, no size given, probably in the 54 cm range. With the very relaxed seat tube angle, I just don't see enough of them to eyeball the size better. Note the relatively thin single plate fork crown. iab, it might fit you reasonably well in the top tube...

From the design perspective, the set of parts includes two dogleg seatposts. Often I have seen track machines use these to get the rider to a seat position that would be pretty modern, but the use of a slack seat tube angle continued. There must have been a reason beyond the availability of lugs with those angles.

I like the bent or broken trophy too. Interesting that there is no rider name given. The polar opposite of "Eddy's" bike.

Note the steel cotterless cranks?

Last edited by repechage; 04-09-14 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 04-09-14, 07:54 AM
  #7  
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I like it, and if I had that kind of disposable income (or a wife with the same interests as me), would be interested. I think the price is fair.
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Old 04-09-14, 07:58 AM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Yes, no size given, probably in the 54 cm range. With the very relaxed seat tube angle, I just don't see enough of them to eyeball the size better. Note the relatively thin single plate fork crown. iab, it might fit you reasonably well in the top tube...

From the design perspective, the set of parts includes two dogleg seatposts. Often I have seen track machines use these to get the rider to a seat position that would be pretty modern, but the use of a slack seat tube angle continued. There must have been a reason beyond the availability of lugs with those angles.

I like the bent or broken trophy too. Interesting that there is no rider name given. The polar opposite of "Eddy's" bike.

Note the steel cotterless cranks?
Yup, I agree with all that. CCM made cool cotterless steel cranks with a triangular spindle. Clubman can probably tell us if that's what this is.

The dogleg seat post allows more front-to-rear adjustment of the saddle than conventional seat posts; perhaps that's the reason for them (and the slack seat tube).

Does anyone believe it's made of stainless steel? Chromed or nickled, that I'd believe.
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Old 04-09-14, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Does anyone believe it's made of stainless steel? Chromed or nickled, that I'd believe.
I wondered about that, too. It's certainly possible as austenitic stainless and martensitic stainless were developed between around 1910 - 1920.

If the raw steel material the tubing was fabricated from has a chromium content greater than 12% by weight, it's stainless by definition. I'd love to see the chemistry of the tubing used.

The pricing doesn't seem unrealistic, and if it really is stainless it's very rare and possibly period unique.
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Old 04-09-14, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
I wondered about that, too. It's certainly possible as austenitic stainless and martensitic stainless were developed between around 1910 - 1920.

If the raw steel material the tubing was fabricated from has a chromium content greater than 12% by weight, it's stainless by definition. I'd love to see the chemistry of the tubing used.

The pricing doesn't seem unrealistic, and if it really is stainless it's very rare and possibly period unique.
I do not think it is Stainless steel, or at least completely. The head lugs were seen elsewhere. The interesting thing to me are the seat stays. They are I think of constant section, not tapered.
I bet the bike would fail the magnet test. I really think the bike has been plated, might just be copper then nickel, not chrome but really doubt Stainless Steel. The fork legs are of tapered section and the chain stays I am not sure. Steel processing and joining really suggests brazing.

Of course, there are anomalies, I saw and picked up Pino's ti track bike at the 1974 Nationals, while I doubted his assertion that the tubes were bored out of solid ti stock… it looked like raw titanium, and it was brazed with lugs. It was stupid light too.

Many of the parts included are of no use on that bike as it sits, the CL rings need an adaptor for sure.

Last edited by repechage; 04-09-14 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 04-09-14, 08:56 AM
  #11  
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That is cool.
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Old 04-09-14, 10:22 AM
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I believe that this is probably a Doc Morton built bike, very similar to the "Professional Flyers" that he designed and built for CCM.
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Old 04-09-14, 10:40 AM
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Not into fixies, but this is really cool.
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Old 04-09-14, 12:10 PM
  #14  
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I asked the seller about any documentation about the tubing among the clippings he has, and he replied almost immediately:

Originally Posted by Scooper
In the literature you have is there any information about the chemistry of the steel used in the tubing?

Could you please provide the length of the seat tube from the center of the crank to the top of the tube (where the seatpost is inserted) and the length of the top tube from the center of the head tube to the center of the seat tube?

Thanks.
Here's the reply:

Originally Posted by rbwheel
Hello,
Thank you for your e-mail. Unfortunately, no material talking about the frame. When we required it,
the owner had told us it was made of Stainless Steel. The back stays of the frame are so small, that
I never questioned it being made of other material. It does not look like any regular cromoly or steel frame
and looks like it can be polished up to make it shine.
The measurements are 21-1/2" from C to T and 24" for Head tube to Seat tube (C to C)
Please get back to me if you have any questions.
Where about are you located??
Thanks,
rbwheel
...and my reply:

Originally Posted by Scooper
Hi Roger; thanks for the quick response.

The reason I asked about the chemistry of the steel is that a 1929 bicycle frame made of stainless would be very rare and perhaps even unique. The earliest stainless frames that I'm aware of were Crescent brand bikes made in Sweden with Swedish stainless steel tubing in the early 1970s. Columbus Metax from Italy followed in the late 1990s, and then in 2006 Reynolds introduced its 953 stainless tubeset. Several other stainless tubesets are now on the market, including Columbus XCr, KVA MS3, Reynolds 931 and Reynolds 921. To be considered stainless steel, the alloy must contain at least 12% chromium by weight. While it's possible your frame has stainless steel tubing, some documented provenance about where and by whom the tubing was drawn would add credibility to the assertion that it is stainless.

I am located in San Francisco, California. The frame is too small for me, but if it is really stainless steel it's highly collectable.

Thanks again, and good luck with the sale.
I am skeptical about it being stainless.
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Old 04-09-14, 12:26 PM
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Cool stem. The similar ones I saw were all mounted with the bar under the stem though.
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Old 04-09-14, 12:43 PM
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I wouldn't fret about or whether the frame is stainless, its supposedly a hand built one-off and that's cool. From the period with a neat collection of extras. Opening bid doesn't hint to what the reserve might be.
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Old 04-09-14, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
I bet the bike would fail the magnet test.
I'm not sure exactly how a magnet could be used to differentiate between stainless and non-stainless steels used for bicycle frame tubing. The difference would be very subtle.

The 953 stainless tubing used for my Waterford attracts the Spot-Rot magnet until the spring loading pull is "7" on the Spot Rot scale, while 531 has a stronger attraction pulling away at "11" on the scale. If one used just a magnet, though, without being able to quantify the magnetic attraction they would both have magnetic attraction.

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Old 04-09-14, 12:57 PM
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I don't doubt it's made from some type of stainless, the patina looks right and straight stays and bridge give that impression. Pretty cool collection of period stuff too.
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Old 04-09-14, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
I'm not sure exactly how a magnet could be used to differentiate between stainless and non-stainless steels used for bicycle frame tubing. The difference would be very subtle.

The 953 stainless tubing used for my Waterford attracts the Spot-Rot magnet until the spring loading pull is "7" on the Spot Rot scale, while 531 has a stronger attraction pulling away at "11" on the scale. If one used just a magnet, though, without being able to quantify the magnetic attraction they would both have magnetic attraction.

True enough, I guess I am too used to using stainless that fails.
Hey, your Waterford must have lots of bondo under that chrome paint….
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Old 04-09-14, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
True enough, I guess I am too used to using stainless that fails.
Hey, your Waterford must have lots of bondo under that chrome paint….
Good one.
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Old 04-09-14, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
Opening bid doesn't hint to what the reserve might be.
True. I somehow missed the "Reserve not met"... I never even consider bidding on items with a reserve.
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Old 04-09-14, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
True. I somehow missed the "Reserve not met"... I never even consider bidding on items with a reserve.
Starting an auction at that level and a reserve? An interesting strategy.

If I was marketing this bike I would go through the newspaper clippings and flag race reports that go with the trophies, then show that those trophies had the same guy or at least one member of the team the same, pointing to a particular rider at least. Otherwise it is just a nice set of trophies and period clippings.
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Old 04-09-14, 05:09 PM
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I had no idea there used to be a velodrome in Toronto - things one can learn from ebay listing :-)
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Old 04-09-14, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mongol777 View Post
I had no idea there used to be a velodrome in Toronto - things one can learn from ebay listing :-)
There were a lot of velodromes at one time. 6 day racing was pretty big. Even held them at Madison Square Garden in NYC (the original building).
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Old 04-09-14, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
There were a lot of velodromes at one time. 6 day racing was pretty big. Even held them at Madison Square Garden in NYC (the original building).
Live and learn - all I know is that closest velodrome to Toronto is in Milton and they are building new one in Waterdown for PanAm games. I wish they'd build one in Toronto or closer suburb. I love FG but never got around to building actual track frame cause I'd have nowhere to use it.
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