is this a Paramount?
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is this a Paramount?
this frame has been hiding out at the coop, i decided to do a little investigating, it has a DA7400 crankset and shimano 600 headset, along with shimano dropouts, unfortunately somebody had some creative time with it, and now it looks like it belongs in a circus,, it has a dime size dent on the downtube, which makes me think its lighter tubing.. possibly reynolds or columbus, my experience with reynolds 531 is that it dents easily
the sn, is 9000 WJ 86019, not sure if the first nine is a 9 or 5, couldn't tell.
here are some pics, some are really blurry i was up late taking them..
my early thoughts that if it is a paramount its likely a mid 80's with the recessed nut for the brakes.
the sn, is 9000 WJ 86019, not sure if the first nine is a 9 or 5, couldn't tell.
here are some pics, some are really blurry i was up late taking them..
my early thoughts that if it is a paramount its likely a mid 80's with the recessed nut for the brakes.
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The decals and paint are all wrong as you noted.
The chrome chainstay, rear brake bridge, and seat cluster/lug look very much the same as a Waterford Paramount. The crown on the fork does not look correct. Unfortunately I don't have any good pictures of my '83 Paramount to compare with your examples.
Have you looked for a serial number? I'm guessing the one pictured is from 1985 or later. The serial number should be on the bottom of the BB shell. A Paramount serial number is very specific.
The chrome chainstay, rear brake bridge, and seat cluster/lug look very much the same as a Waterford Paramount. The crown on the fork does not look correct. Unfortunately I don't have any good pictures of my '83 Paramount to compare with your examples.
Have you looked for a serial number? I'm guessing the one pictured is from 1985 or later. The serial number should be on the bottom of the BB shell. A Paramount serial number is very specific.
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#3
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i think its an 89...
Waterford Built 1989 Schwinn Paramount Road Bike Dura Ace 7402 Very Original | eBay
found this little beauty.. holy crap it really is a paramount!!
Waterford Built 1989 Schwinn Paramount Road Bike Dura Ace 7402 Very Original | eBay
found this little beauty.. holy crap it really is a paramount!!
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thanks pb, the serial is in the original post, it was hard to make out, after i scraped the house paint off,
The decals and paint are all wrong as you noted.
The chrome chainstay, rear brake bridge, and seat cluster/lug look very much the same as a Waterford Paramount. The crown on the fork does not look correct. Unfortunately I don't have any good pictures of my '83 Paramount to compare with your examples.
Have you looked for a serial number? I'm guessing the one pictured is from 1985 or later. The serial number should be on the bottom of the BB shell. A Paramount serial number is very specific.
The chrome chainstay, rear brake bridge, and seat cluster/lug look very much the same as a Waterford Paramount. The crown on the fork does not look correct. Unfortunately I don't have any good pictures of my '83 Paramount to compare with your examples.
Have you looked for a serial number? I'm guessing the one pictured is from 1985 or later. The serial number should be on the bottom of the BB shell. A Paramount serial number is very specific.
#5
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Determine the Manufacturing Date
Your S/N is a bit funny, but others here know Paramounts better than I do. Bob is right about the fork crown. The 89 you linked to has a different fork crown, but some builders use as many as 3 to 5 crowns at any one time for different reasons (aesthetics, ride, drilling, etc).
Your S/N is a bit funny, but others here know Paramounts better than I do. Bob is right about the fork crown. The 89 you linked to has a different fork crown, but some builders use as many as 3 to 5 crowns at any one time for different reasons (aesthetics, ride, drilling, etc).
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i believe its an 89.. what do you think? the fork crown matches, as does the crank/shifters and headset
Determine the Manufacturing Date
Your S/N is a bit funny, but others here know Paramounts better than I do. Bob is right about the fork crown. The 89 you linked to has a different fork crown, but some builders use as many as 3 to 5 crowns at any one time for different reasons (aesthetics, ride, drilling, etc).
Your S/N is a bit funny, but others here know Paramounts better than I do. Bob is right about the fork crown. The 89 you linked to has a different fork crown, but some builders use as many as 3 to 5 crowns at any one time for different reasons (aesthetics, ride, drilling, etc).
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A picture would be helpful. Try rubbing a very light coat of wax or polish in the numbers before taking the pictures. Waterford SN are very hard to see. Here is the one in my '83. They were still placing them on the left rear dropout at this point. The change to the BB shell would occur in late '84.
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#8
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i think the fork crowns match?
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now i am confused, the fork crown makes me think its a later model, but the SN obviously points to it being an 86,
Waterford Schwinn Paramount 1986 Period Correct Original Shimano 600 Parts | eBay
this looks like the bike too, except the forks, maybe it was built with different forks?
at the end of the day we can confirm it probably is a paramount
Waterford Schwinn Paramount 1986 Period Correct Original Shimano 600 Parts | eBay
this looks like the bike too, except the forks, maybe it was built with different forks?
at the end of the day we can confirm it probably is a paramount
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You did mention that somebody had some creative time with it. This could explain the odd fork. Unfortunately I cannot access the site at all on Google, this morning, and I can't look at pics on IE.
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honestly, i don't really care so much as what the year is, just if it is a paramount or not, this frame has been hanging out at the coop for awhile, its been kind of a joke, nobody thought it really was a parmount, but the fact that it had DA cranks on it, made us all pause, i decided to take it upon myself to finally find out what it was.
thanks everybody for helping me figure out what this thing is.
thanks everybody for helping me figure out what this thing is.
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Jim, I was thinking the same thing. All the Waterford Paramounts had a slightly sloping crown and this one is very flat.
Gordo, are the front fork dropouts Campagnolo? Or do they match the same brand as the rear? Have you pulled the fork to check for a SN on the steering tube? Most Paramounts have matching SN unless the fork was replaced at some point.
Waiting to hear more!
Gordo, are the front fork dropouts Campagnolo? Or do they match the same brand as the rear? Have you pulled the fork to check for a SN on the steering tube? Most Paramounts have matching SN unless the fork was replaced at some point.
Waiting to hear more!
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im all over the place i know, the front and rear drop outs are both shimano, ill have to pop the fork off when i get home later
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This repainted red and white is an '88....Flat crown with a slight slope, sharp edges and it has the two points on the side of the crown. And a black '87 with the same crown...flat, slight slope, sharp edge
The '85 has Campy portacatena dropouts, the '87 and '88 have Shimano...
The '85 has Campy portacatena dropouts, the '87 and '88 have Shimano...
Last edited by miamijim; 05-12-14 at 09:10 AM.
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#21
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My '83 also has the sharp edge on the crown, but it does slope.
Here is a Jan '84 frame from ebay. Notice the window in the side of the crown lug.
Also here is a Jan '85 from ebay with the same window.
Another view of my '83 with the window in the fork crown.
Obviously there must have been a change over in the fork crown style at some point after Jan '85. Hope all this is helpful.
Here is a Jan '84 frame from ebay. Notice the window in the side of the crown lug.
Also here is a Jan '85 from ebay with the same window.
Another view of my '83 with the window in the fork crown.
Obviously there must have been a change over in the fork crown style at some point after Jan '85. Hope all this is helpful.
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My '83 also has the sharp edge on the crown, but it does slope.
Here is a Jan '84 frame from ebay. Notice the window in the side of the crown lug.
Another view of my '83 with the window in the fork crown.
Obviously there must have been a change over in the fork crown style at some point after Jan '85. Hope all this is helpful.
Here is a Jan '84 frame from ebay. Notice the window in the side of the crown lug.
Another view of my '83 with the window in the fork crown.
Obviously there must have been a change over in the fork crown style at some point after Jan '85. Hope all this is helpful.
#23
Keener splendor
The '89 crown linked early in this thread is completely different from the OP's. The OP's is flat with some slope. The '89 has a full on sloping crown.
Miamijim is all over it, though.
Miamijim is all over it, though.
#24
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My '87 has a "semi-sloping" crown:
The first three characters of the serial number describe the frame size from the center of the crank to the top of the seat lug in millimeters, and the fourth character is alphabetic and describes the length of the fork steerer tube (A is the shortest, E is the longest).
My bike's serial number is 620E WK 87077 (620 mm frame with long steerer, "W" = made at the Waterford facility, "K 87077" = October 1987, 77th frame scheduled for production that month).
This photo was taken before the repaint:
After Dr. Deltron did his magic.
The first three characters of the serial number describe the frame size from the center of the crank to the top of the seat lug in millimeters, and the fourth character is alphabetic and describes the length of the fork steerer tube (A is the shortest, E is the longest).
My bike's serial number is 620E WK 87077 (620 mm frame with long steerer, "W" = made at the Waterford facility, "K 87077" = October 1987, 77th frame scheduled for production that month).
This photo was taken before the repaint:
After Dr. Deltron did his magic.
Last edited by Scooper; 05-12-14 at 11:05 AM.
#25
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thanks for all the help guys, so it looks like a late model 86, or maybe an early 87, don't know what the coop is going to do with, im sure they will sell as is, trying to figure out a price now.
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